• Hey Visitor,

    In light of recent events, all community members in the US should reach out to their representative in regards to the Stop Online Suicide Assistance Forums Act that has been introduced in congress. This bill, if passed, could criminalize this community and hold it liable for simply hosting information.

    You should be able to locate and contact your represenative by going to this website. You can also contact Lori Trahan, the one spearheading this bill by calling her office at (202) 225-3411 or by leaving a message on the contact form on her site.

    One of the best ways to combat this is to make your voice heard. We're not political activists, but we made this notice to let you know that you do have a voice and that you do have representives that represent you in congress.
P

purella

Member
Sep 15, 2021
45
I hate to tell these folks, but SI still remains when terminal and while I don’t doubt they truly believe this, the dread, the uncertainty, the panic and even the frantic and unresolvable regret still set in. Few are saying to themselves, “Well, I’ve had a good run. I’m ready to quickly go down hill, struggle to breathe, piss myself without a catheter and be in extreme pain even with the strongest pain killers” (which are becoming hard to secure for even hospice).

I follow(ed) some lovely folks on Tik Tok who were/are suffering from terminal illnesses and as I’ve mentioned before, I also follow hospice nurses. One lovely woman in Australia had advanced stage MND (a horrid disease that makes me question the existence God) and while she tried to put on a brave face because she too had struggled in life, the fear she shared + the extreme anxiety she felt while trying to draw breath was heartbreaking.

I could go on and on…but one of the hospice nurses I follow confirmed the following: while some are very fortunate to gently go and feel love/comfort and often see loved ones, others are in pure terror and panic. There is no rhyme or reason.

If you want guarantees in terms of avoiding SI, pray that you die in your sleep or you’re in an accident that the docs promise your loved ones that it was quick.

I wish I could believe in the premise of the show, Dead Like Me (ie where folks are tasked with ensuring a persons soul is removed from their body before you die) and hey, maybe it is indeed the case. That’s the frustrating thing about all of this - there is no certainty and all we know for sure is what we are experiencing now and even then, life can change for the better in a New York minute.

much of SI is from the fear of failure and its method-specific consequences no?
if you could stare down a bottle of a supposed "magic 100% instant death" long and hard and not kill yourself shortly after you aren't actively suicidal i.e. have developed a higher tolerance for suffering than your current suffering level
 
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jodes2

jodes2

I'm pro CHOICE. Don't start on me. PLEASE
Aug 28, 2022
4,180
Sorry you're suffering so much for so long ❤️ life isn't fair :(
 
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m56sl

Member
Nov 21, 2022
11
Agreed. Everybody should have the right to a peaceful death just like animals in a veterinary clinic. While I am glad that animals get valued enough to be put down when their suffering is too great, why not humans? Religion and insensitive pro-lifers are stifling progression when it comes to these issues and it is not right. We all deserve peace.
It rests on the big lie that humans are supreme and any human life lost is a painful reminder to the supremecists that we are indeed not supreme we die just like the animals we think we are better than.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

She dreams of eternal sleep
Sep 24, 2020
16,696
This is gaslighting. You can't say things like "this is the truth" and then pretend you were just opining. The only thing that's controversial is the way you consistently set your own opinion as the absolute truth and then downplay it as "just hating life."
There’s no gaslighting or anything like that. Nothing I’ve written is controversial. I have a realistic view towards life, that is all. Those statements that I made literally are true as well as being my personal feelings towards life. It’s a forum for suicidal people to vent after all. Pro suffering people may disagree but that doesn’t mean that I’m not right, people can do what they want with their lives, they can choose to continue existing and suffer all they want and it doesn’t affect me in any way and it’s nothing to do with me. But anything positive in life certainly is a delusion, and to be gone from this world does solve everything and it is a beautiful thing. There is no benefit to suffering in any way and life is objectively horrifying, only really delusional people disagree with that. It’s just so wrong to dismiss and downplay the suffering that exists, it’s disturbing to see life as being a positive thing as after all so much endless torture continues to exist, it’s undeniable.

I do believe that this forum has become much more pro life recently with people bringing their ‘life is a gift’ beliefs on here and forcing it onto others. Like suicide isn’t tragic. The ending of suffering could never be a negative thing, and it’s like those who go on about how suicide must be the ‘last resort’ want people to suffer as much as possible before they leave. Like if people want to live then that is their choice and I respect that, but it’s just so invalidating when people glorify life all the time. The existence of life is such a cruel, horrific and unnecessary thing. And then they even allow pro life threads to be posted on here which is so irritating to me. If someone says that life is beautiful then they are so deluded. To die is the more rational option, that doesn’t mean that everyone has to die, it’s a choice.

And yet some people on here are offended by all this, arrogantly posting about death cults and echo chambers or whatever. This is annoying to me and, it makes me wonder why they are here if they are so against the forum. Only people who see themselves as being way superior to others and want to look down on them use phrases like that to describe others suffering. Like I’m sorry if this offends people on here but life is simply awful and so many people want to die. Suicide isn’t a bad thing, it’s beautiful to be permanently free from all pain. Some people on here are so toxic honestly, like what are people trying to achieve highlighting parts of people’s posts in bold or screenshotting them. It’s like they want to make suicidal people feel worse on purpose, when all that the suicidal people are doing is just telling the truth.
 
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9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
There’s no gaslighting or anything like that. Nothing I’ve written is controversial.
Not true. Let's simplify and turn our attention to these three things you said:
This is the truth, the fact is that a peaceful suicide would solve everything in life
And the truth is that to die is a beautiful thing.
any positive views towards life certainly are a delusion
You're taking your own opinion and declaring it as a fact. None of these are "the truth."

Like I’m sorry if this offends people on here but life is simply awful and so many people want to die. Suicide isn’t a bad thing, it’s beautiful to be permanently free from all pain. Some people on here are so toxic honestly,
Again, what's offending people is not that you said life is awful and people want to die. You said much more than that, you repeatedly declared "the truth." And you just did it again:
I have a realistic view towards life, that is all. Those statements that I made literally are true
 
RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
1,835
Rain, are you seriously going to double-down and say FC is not setting her own opinion as absolute truth? Is this the precedent you're willing to set?

It's fascinating how the first thing you do when you come back to this forum is jumping right into arguments and digging up stuff that happened months ago. Not a very good look. It's your decision how you want to spend your time but I have better things to do.
 
9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
It's fascinating how the first thing you do when you come back to this forum is jumping right into arguments and digging up stuff that happened months ago. Not a very good look. It's your decision how you want to spend your time but I have better things to do.
It's fascinating you have no substantial reply so have to hold it against me that this drama came when I arrived. I'm not worried about how I look here, what FC said shouldn't be acceptable to your own standards.
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
1,835
It's fascinating you have no substantial reply so have to hold it against me that this drama came when I arrived. I'm not worried about how I look here, what FC said shouldn't be acceptable to your own standards.

I'm not gonna waste my time and unfold a conversation that already happened months ago and I don't know if you expect me to crack down on FCs ability to post her opinion(?) considering you brought me into this discussion but I'm certainly not gonna do that. She has every right to post her opinion and she doesn't attack anyone, right? She isn't insulting anyone, she has been civil this entire conversation. All of her threads are simply a reflection of her world view, nobody is forced to read her threads or engage with her in any other way and we have an ignore function exactly for that reason. I don't see a problem. If you don't like it though, nobody is forcing you to stay here.
 
bluem00n

bluem00n

Member
Sep 10, 2022
62
It's fascinating you have no substantial reply so have to hold it against me that this drama came when I arrived. I'm not worried about how I look here, what FC said shouldn't be acceptable to your own standards.
I can't tell, perhaps you create your internal model / mental map of reality based solely on what you read / see in mainstream media, along with your own firsthand experience. As such, I can't help but get the impression that you are quite unacqainted with the endless mindbending atrocities that are posted every few minutes on gore sites.

And like a great many others who watch such utterly, utterly appalling videos that are sometimes so sickening they make viewers throw up, I don't watch them out of some perverse fetish, but to continually remind myself of the TRUE (oh dear - there's that word again, the one you seem to have so much trouble with) nature of what goes on in the wider reality outside my comparitively comfortable existence. Primarily, because otherwise - in the general day-to-day hubbub of life - it's very easy to overlook and forget such things.

You can critique FC all you like, but spend some time exposing yourself to some of what goes on - out of sight, and out there beyond your horizons - and you'll realise that actually, what she says is entirely correct.​
 
9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
FC I've made peace with what you said, this is only a reply to bluem00n to clarify what I don't think they got right about what I said.
I can't tell, perhaps you create your internal model / mental map of reality based solely on what you read / see in mainstream media, along with your own firsthand experience. As such, I can't help but get the impression that you are quite unacqainted with the endless mindbending atrocities that are posted every few minutes on gore sites.

Part of the irony in all this is that I'm actually quite the misanthrope already, so it doesn't mean much to me that you're bascally telling me I "don't get outside enough" to reach the same conclusion as FC. My problem with FC is the way she says her opinion as the infallible truth. It reminds me of growing up around Chrsitian fundamentalists telling me about "The truth" and what I "should just accept" and how "the only ones who would disagree have to think X". Stating an opinion that way is arrogant and very narrow-thinking, no matter the context.

You can critique FC all you like, but spend some time exposing yourself to some of what goes on - out of sight, and out there beyond your horizons - and you'll realise that actually, what she says is entirely correct.
The unimaginably vast amount of suffering in this world is soberingly real to me, but still it's wrong to tell people they can't disagree with FC unless they believe "suffering in endless pain to be a positive thing", that notion is absurd.
 
A

affinity

Member
Oct 8, 2021
52
The unimaginably vast amount of suffering in this world is soberingly real to me, but still it's wrong to tell people they can't disagree with FC unless they believe "suffering in endless pain to be a positive thing", that notion is absurd.

Apparently we all need to have Ogrish/Live Leak or whatever the new gore site is in the background at all times to understand that there is evil and suffering in the world. As if we haven’t seen this first hand and up close…

In any event, the converse is just as true in terms of possibly exposing themselves to the good in the world, including good music, good food, lakes/oceans, animals, watching people we care for accomplishing something cool, watching kind people doing kind things etc etc. But apparently it’s only a one way street.

I don’t interact with certain accounts because it’s obvious their mind is firmly made up, but then I question why they vehemently react to anything that even gently challenges their viewpoints and perhaps therein lies the issue - ie they’re unable to manage having their views challenged bc it scares them
to even consider they could be wrong.

All in all - most of the issues brought up here are based on opinion/theory and NONE of us know with absolute certainty RE same. To suggest otherwise is a bit arrogant and can be harmful in certain cases.
 
bluem00n

bluem00n

Member
Sep 10, 2022
62
S1252
Well, methinks your critiques of FC are perhaps engaging in semantics and pedantry, as if to say that to assert something as a fact is intrinsically wrong even in the face of overwhelming corroborating evidence.

For I'd take the entirely opposite view to the link you posted (as above). That indeed - OBJECTIVELY - life is awful.

I'd be very, very hardpressed to see how anyone who fully acquaints themselves with what goes on in OBJECTIVE reality, both in the present and throughout history, could for a moment assert that 'life is awful' is a mere subjective opinion. Frankly, to persist in defending that position in the face of the facts of brute reality would be an absolute jawdropper in my view.

'Life is awful' is indeed an objective fact ... the fact that humans build shelter / housing rather than live outside in the wild is by itself all the evidence one needs to assert that life without shelter for example, would be awful - otherwise, why bother? And the need for shelter is just the tip of a very large iceberg.
So in contrast, I'd say that anyone who asserted that life isn't awful is the one plainly and very definitely making a subjective statement, one that's almost certainly based on their own experience of life as relatively pleasant, where life is comfortable, and they don't for example have to get messy slaughtering their own food on a twice-weekly basis, else face starvation.
 
9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
View attachment 101580
Well, methinks your critiques of FC are perhaps engaging in semantics and pedantry, as if to say that to assert something as a fact is intrinsically wrong even in the face of overwhelming corroborating evidence.

It's not just semantics when it's asserting that something is so objectively true that "dying is beautiful, and you can't disagree unless you think endless suffering is good."

For I'd take the entirely opposite view to the link you posted (as above). That indeed - OBJECTIVELY - life is awful.
I think life's awful too but it's beside the point. What you're saying and what I'm saying are both just opinions, subjective not objective. I'm literally willing to die for my beliefs but I have no basis to say my beliefs are objectively true.

Anyways, we can acknowledge a difference between saying "the world is awful" and saying "this is the truth, just accept it, dying is beautiful, this shouldn't be controversal, anyone who disagrees must think endless suffering is a good thing." That difference is not semantics.​
 
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bluem00n

bluem00n

Member
Sep 10, 2022
62
I agree ... "Dying is beautiful" isn't objectively true, but that to me is simply poetic license, and to then go on and reject the core thrust of FC's statements as subjective opinion seems like nitpicking to me.
I think life's awful too but it's beside the point.
eh ...? Surely, that's precisely the point ...
What you're saying and what I'm saying are both just opinions, subjective not objective.
It seems to me that if I assert that the Earth orbits the Sun, then in your view that would just be my subjective opinion. So at what point does something become an objective truth in your view ...?

To my mind, something becomes an objective truth when there's overwhelming empirical evidence to support it, furthermore when any divergent view is blatantly subjective.

So, in the case of whether 'Life is awful' is objectively true or just subjective opinion, the empirical evidence in favour of the assertion that it's an 'objective' statement is overwhelmingly independently-sourced and not mere hearsay or opinion. In contrast, the opposing view that life is not inevitably awful - as illustrated by affinity's observations about "good music, good food, lakes/oceans, animals" etc - is very obviously a subjective position.

I'd mention in passing too, that one doesn't need to visit gore sites to witness how dreadul reality actually is for the vast majority of people on this planet ... just check out some YouTubes by vloggers posting videos about life as experienced by regular folk in Haiti, or in Liberia, or Nigeria, or Bangladesh. Or how about the video I watched recently, about guys in India whose job day-in / day-out is to wade naked waist-deep into thick raw sewage, who have to bend over and unblock pipes with their bare hands for a pittance ...

... ask them whether 'Life is awful' is their subjective opinion or their objective reality.​
 
9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
I agree ... "Dying is beautiful" isn't objectively true, but that to me is simply poetic license, and to then go on and reject the core thrust of FC's statements as subjective opinion seems like nitpicking to me.
Erm, no, it's not nitpicky or semantics or pedantic to say there's a difference between "life is awful" and "life is awful, just accept it, and dying is beautiful, anyone who disagrees must think endless suffering is a good thing." Surely you've been accosted at one point in your life by an arrogant Christian fundamentalist, who insists "life is beautiful, just accept it, if you disagree you must worship Satan."

eh ...? Surely, that's precisely the point ...
No, it's not, because it doesn't matter what you substitute "X" with in: "this is the truth, X, just accept it, if you disagree then you must believe endless suffering is good." It's arrogant and narrow-minded.

It seems to me that if I assert that the Earth orbits the Sun, then in your view that would just be my subjective opinion. So at what point does something become an objective truth in your view ...?

To my mind, something becomes an objective truth when there's overwhelming empirical evidence to support it, furthermore when any divergent view is blatantly subjective.

Well now you are conflating scientific facts with philosophical opinions. The fact that the earth orbits the sun can be demonstrated overwhelmingly by science. This fact is as "proven" as the theory of gravity itself. The only reason "proven" is in quotes, and the same reason why gravity will only ever be a theory, is because technically science can't prove anything.

So, yes it's a scientific fact the Earth orbits the sun, just like gravity is a scientific fact, but it's not a scientific fact that life is awful or dying is beautiful. On the other hand, it's not objectively true that the Earth orbits the sun, nor is it objectively true that life is awful. Maybe what your are saying is that "life is awful" is a scientific fact, but it's not even a scientific claim that can be tested.​
 
D

DysphoriaKilledMe

-
Nov 21, 2022
51
Life being cruel is an objective fact to the person expressing it (because they only have their life to base it on), and subjective or even untrue to someone who disagrees (because they're not living it, so they can't fathom it).

In the end, FC is venting their feelings out and telling their truth to us. We may not agree with it, but we don't live in their shoes, so we of course won't necessarily agree with it. In the end, it is confirmation bias.
 
Nirrend

Nirrend

The important is not how long you live ...
Mar 12, 2022
396
This is the truth, the fact is that a peaceful suicide would solve everything in life and it would be the best outcome possible to pass away peacefully and be permanently free from this existence without having the ability to suffer and struggle in any way. Death is really the only solution when life itself is the problem. The existence of life is the real horrific thing, the fact that life continues to be brought here is so disturbing and tragic where suffering will inevitably be experienced. The fact that life exists is a cruel mistake and it’s wrong to value life in any way. Humans place so much value on insignificant life which exists only to die and be forgotten about. And these false beliefs prevent others from achieving true peace which can only be achieved by leaving this world.

Life is just a pointless struggle all for no purpose that leads nowhere, such an useless concept and the idea that life could be worth enduring is centred around lies. Humans exist just to eventually deteriorate and pain is guaranteed in this process, unnecessary pain that never should be experienced and serves no purpose other than to torment beings. Only death is the true relief, where in non existence we lack the awareness that we are dead. There is simply nothing for all eternity and the non existent have no need for anything. To die solves all problems and is preferable to any kind of life, as the existence of life leads to an unlimited amount of problems which continue to be experienced as long as life exists. Everything in life is viewed as a problem to me in some way, it’s a problem that I’m still breathing and are trapped here.

Having the option of a peaceful death right there prevents unnecessary struggles and fears such as the method potentially failing and pain experienced during the dying process. There would be no need for complicated suicide research and there would be no need for suicide forums to even exist, as even this suicide forum is often no different to anywhere else in this world, not even offering relief from hostile pro lifers who aim to invalidate and dismiss suffering, just contributing to the initial problem. There would be no need for any discussions about this if our peaceful death was right there for us, all those who wish to go could just die and free themselves from an existence not worth enduring and preventing decades of torment. To die really is a beautiful thing and suicide should be accepted and seen for what it really is, the ideal solution to end whatever problems this life has burdened us with.

Hi sweet @FuneralCry

I'm sorry you're going through all this and I know things have been complicated for you for a while now ❤

Honestly, in a lot of points I agree,

Thinking about life and death, I've always found it crazy that the human organism was so well designed to survive but still so poorly designed to ensure a quick and painless end.

Over time, I find that this forum has cured me of my irrational fear of death. When I think of it today, I find it magical, poetic, profound, a little sad or really sad from one day to another.

I know that SI comes along from time to time to remind me that it's here, whispering in my head "Hey, don't forget that it's the unknown, that you have to be afraid of it, and that the day you'll ctb, you'll be afraid too", but over time I find that this anxious automatism has become quite simple to counter.

In any case, thank you for sharing your thoughts

Love ❤
 
bluem00n

bluem00n

Member
Sep 10, 2022
62
"It's not objectively true that the Earth orbits the sun"

er, OK - now you're taking an adversarial position solely for its own sake, apparently engaging in the thrust and parry of vigorous debate for what looks like your own 'intellectual' amusement. That certainly explains your ongoing attacks on FC.

So unless a statement can be scientifically "proven" (your quotes), it can never be a fact or universal truth, because it is instead philosophical and therefore 'subjective'. Cripes, that's exactly the kind of enabling rationale that vivisectionists delight in, to legitimise their horrendous experiments on animals - in my worldview, that would be more OBJECTIVE proof that 'Life is awful', in your worldview it remains a mere SUBJECTIVE opinion.

But yeah, I see where you're coming from now ... were the Indian guy to assert that 'Life is awful', you'd be obliged to point out that hey that's just his subjective opinion, because - you know - actually, it's a philosophical statement rather than a scientifically "proven" and therefore objective fact ...? And because it's merely his subjective experience, it could never qualify as an instance of the proposition that 'Life is awful' as an objective statement.

Geez, what a pile of amoral cop-outs (and yes, I realise science is amoral - that's actually the root of the problem here) ... it's ironic that your line of reasoning comes across as one-eyed and dogmatic as you accuse us 'pseudo-objectivists' of being, insofar as if a statement falls outside of science's remit, it must by definition be philosophical / subjective.

I'll leave the last word to you ... as our views are diametrically opposed and as such irreconcilable, I for one see no point in continuing. Bye bye.​
 
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MoreThanAFeeling

Specialist
Feb 23, 2020
377
I have noticed over the past months how FC is basically saying the same thing in every thread they post.
That's how FC is. I personally find it amusing on the other hand as we can see in this thread many find it annoying and are happy to finally show their resentment of them in this thread.

In their option death is beautiful.. From their point of view that's the truth. Deal with it and move on..
But unfortunately that is impossible as for some members SS more than a forum.
 
H

HermitLonerGuy

Specialist
Sep 28, 2022
325
im so desperate to just die that i dont care about it being peaceful anymore.

strongly leaning to drowning myself.
 
G

gimzero

Student
Aug 15, 2022
136
I read every day for people who die in the bed peacefully and i dont know what you can do.
 
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S

SamTam33

Experienced
Oct 9, 2022
282
im so desperate to just die that i dont care about it being peaceful anymore.

strongly leaning to drowning myself.
I plan on using my lifelong experience with discomfort to my advantage.

I have a shitload of practice with adversity and powering through horrible situations. All of that practice is going to pay off when I use it to push through any unpeacefulness associated with ctb.

That's what I've been reminding myself of the last few days. Reinforcing what I'm capable of enduring based on my history of physical and mental trauma.

If I did it once, I can do it again for the final time.
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
2,874
I have noticed over the past months how FC is basically saying the same thing in every thread they post.
That's how FC is. I personally find it amusing on the other hand as we can see in this thread many find it annoying and are happy to finally show their resentment of them in this thread.

In their option death is beautiful.. From their point of view that's the truth. Deal with it and move on..
But unfortunately that is impossible as for some members SS more than a forum.
I don't think members disagreeing with a user who consistently and repeatedly presents the same opinion as an undisputable truth and suggest that anyone who disagrees is a "prolifer" is meanness or resentment tbh, certainly not in the way its presented in some posts in this thread.
 
Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited

I believe in Sunset Limited
Jul 29, 2019
968
I disagree with the OP but am not keen on starting a discussion with her on this. It is pointless to discuss ideas that are the product of personal perspectives. Because it is personal. While I disagree with the OP, I have no problem with her thinking that way. Still, I enjoyed reading it.
 
M

MoreThanAFeeling

Specialist
Feb 23, 2020
377
I don't think members disagreeing with a user who consistently and repeatedly presents the same opinion as an undisputable truth and suggest that anyone who disagrees is a "prolifer" is meanness or resentment tbh, certainly not in the way its presented in some posts in this thread.
Here.. Swollow this chill pill old timer.. Being called a pro lifer is considered a compliment outside of SS. No need to get worked up about an innocuous comment from a harmless member.

Hey wait, aren't you in your mid 30s?! My tip don't waste this 'beautiful' life on such trivial matters.
 
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Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
2,874
Being called a pro lifer is considered a compliment outside of SS.
Being called a "prolifer" on the basis described is an ostracising label within SS, as you well know. I doubt the overwhelming majority of people outside of SS even know what a "pro lifer" even is in this context tbqh.
 
M

MoreThanAFeeling

Specialist
Feb 23, 2020
377
Being called a "prolifer" on the basis described is an ostracising label within SS, as you well know. I doubt the overwhelming majority of people outside of SS even know what a "pro lifer" even is in this context tbqh.
You still take this and my shit posting way too seriously..

Literally nothing the OPer posted was harmful to anyone. So just get your butt out of this thread and take your group with you.. I am sure I will see you guys soon in another thread picking on another member.

I disagree with the OP but am not keen on starting a discussion with her on this. It is pointless to discuss ideas that are the product of personal perspectives. Because it is personal. While I disagree with the OP, I have no problem with her thinking that way. Still, I enjoyed reading it.
🤝
 
9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
"It's not objectively true that the Earth orbits the sun"

er, OK - now you're taking an adversarial position solely for its own sake, apparently engaging in the thrust and parry of vigorous debate for what looks like your own 'intellectual' amusement. That certainly explains your ongoing attacks on FC.

So unless a statement can be scientifically "proven" (your quotes), it can never be a fact or universal truth, because it is instead philosophical and therefore 'subjective'. Cripes, that's exactly the kind of enabling rationale that vivisectionists delight in, to legitimise their horrendous experiments on animals - in my worldview, that would be more OBJECTIVE proof that 'Life is awful', in your worldview it remains a mere SUBJECTIVE opinion.

But yeah, I see where you're coming from now ... were the Indian guy to assert that 'Life is awful', you'd be obliged to point out that hey that's just his subjective opinion, because - you know - actually, it's a philosophical statement rather than a scientifically "proven" and therefore objective fact ...? And because it's merely his subjective experience, it could never qualify as an instance of the proposition that 'Life is awful' as an objective statement.

Geez, what a pile of amoral cop-outs (and yes, I realise science is amoral - that's actually the root of the problem here) ... it's ironic that your line of reasoning comes across as one-eyed and dogmatic as you accuse us 'pseudo-objectivists' of being, insofar as if a statement falls outside of science's remit, it must by definition be philosophical / subjective.

I'll leave the last word to you ... as our views are diametrically opposed and as such irreconcilable, I for one see no point in continuing. Bye bye.​
Your epidermis is showing.
 
cat_supremacist

cat_supremacist

All things flow, nothing abides. ☯️
Jul 7, 2022
94
Some impressive gymnastics going on in this thread.
It's quite amusing. Especially for cruel people like ourselves, who'se greatest passion in life is to bully the suicidal.
31 Dr Evil Laugh
Edit: Shit, I wasn't supposed to say that publicly. Mods, how do I delet post?
 
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