pento

pento

Member
Nov 12, 2021
61
I've been researching various suicide methods, and while N is undoubtedly the gold standard for CTB, followed by SN, access is becoming a bigger and bigger problem. It's possible that in 10 years there will be effectively no N or SN for anyone, leaving people to consider brutal methods.

I wanted to float the idea of VESD, a rarely discussed suicide method, with the addition of medical supervision. VESD is when you just stop eating and drinking, and you eventually slip into a coma and die. Hunger and thirst pretty much just wears off after the first couple days, and within 3-8 days you're in a coma. Sounds pretty nice, right? Well, not without medical supervision. VESD is frequently employed by terminally ill patients in places without PAS (physician-assisted suicide), but they are monitored and given drugs on demand. The main issue that people on SS have taken to VESD is the possibility of pain and other complications when done alone. But, since you have a right to refuse to eat or drink, and forcing one to do so is personal assault, in theory this means you could have a quite peaceful death in the confines of a hospital.

Is there anything I'm missing or am I potentially onto something?
 
willitpass

willitpass

Specialist
Mar 10, 2020
319
if deemed mentally unstable enough, they can decide that you are not mentally able to make your own medical decisions and they will then be able to perform medical procedures against your will. they can tube you if they realize you’re using this as a suicide method without being terminally ill, and it would be pretty hard to convince them you’re mentally stable if you’re checking yourself into a hospital saying you haven’t eaten or drank and wish to be treated yet you won’t allow them to give you food or fluids
 
zeroornothing

zeroornothing

Enlightened
Jun 22, 2021
1,038
But, since you have a right to refuse to eat or drink, and forcing one to do so is personal assault, in theory this means you could have a quite peaceful death in the confines of a hospital.
Is there anything I'm missing or am I potentially onto something?
Peaceful?? Are you serious?
I hate to break it to you but you havent figured out the “potential gold standard for those without access to N/SN” :pfff::ahhha:
 
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pento

pento

Member
Nov 12, 2021
61
if deemed mentally unstable enough, they can decide that you are not mentally able to make your own medical decisions and they will then be able to perform medical procedures against your will. they can tube you if they realize you’re using this as a suicide method without being terminally ill, and it would be pretty hard to convince them you’re mentally stable if you’re checking yourself into a hospital saying you haven’t eaten or drank and wish to be treated yet you won’t allow them to give you food or fluids
You would state your intention of CTB from the very beginning, when there is no argument that you're not mentally sound. And of course order them to not resuscitate. Force feeding is considered a form of torture and is highly condemned by international medical associations.

Peaceful?? Are you serious?
Yes, VESD is described as at worst neutral and at best, pleasant.

Per Wikipedia:
Studies have shown that for terminally ill patients who choose to die, deaths by terminal dehydration are generally peaceful, and not associated with suffering, when supplemented with adequate pain medication.[16][17][18][19][20][21]
 
zeroornothing

zeroornothing

Enlightened
Jun 22, 2021
1,038
You would state your intention of CTB from the very beginning, when there is no argument that you're not mentally sound. And of course order them to not resuscitate. Force feeding is considered a form of torture and is highly condemned by international medical associations.


Yes, VESD is described as at worst neutral and at best, pleasant.

Per Wikipedia:
You realize that they practically keep these people in sleeping state the whole time until they die from dehydration?
Did you account for that?
 
pento

pento

Member
Nov 12, 2021
61
I will just say that good old hanging is super fast and extremely effective, and nobody can stop people from buying ropes and ladders.
Hanging has a really high risk of failure, isn't peaceful, and there's a chance of permanent brain damage.
You realize that they practically keep these people in sleeping state the whole time until they die from dehydration?
Did you account for that?
Sure, and they would do the same for you if you are in or claim to be in severe pain. They give out sedatives and benzos like candy to those who are inpatient.
 
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fox_wannabe

fox_wannabe

Warlock
Jul 7, 2021
779
Hanging has a really high risk of failure, isn't peaceful, and there's a chance of permanent brain damage.
True for people who do not have know-how, unfortunately this is the first method they use because of it's symbol. VESD also works, i do not disagree.
 
willitpass

willitpass

Specialist
Mar 10, 2020
319
You would state your intention of CTB from the very beginning, when there is no argument that you're not mentally sound. And of course order them to not resuscitate. Force feeding is considered a form of torture and is highly condemned by international medical associations.
i personally have almost been tubed against my will when saying i intended to ctb. in my personal experience i know people who have been tubed. any hospital i have been to will perform any medical procedures necessary on suicidal patients and will also ship you off to a psych ward once you’re medically stable
also i have done my research on do not resuscitate order as i wanted one myself so i could ctb easier. they take time to set up, you can’t just walk into a hospital and tell them that, you need legal paperwork and usually multiple doctors signatures. and many hospitals will choose to ignore a do not resuscitate if it was filed recently before a suicide attempt and they have reason to believe it was filed for the sake of a suicide attempt. the medical community are not pro choice and to get them involved will not work in our favor
 
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S

Someone123

Arcanist
Oct 19, 2021
441
Hanging has a really high risk of failure, isn't peaceful, and there's a chance of permanent brain damage.

Sure, and they would do the same for you if you are in or claim to be in severe pain. They give out sedatives and benzos like candy to those who are inpatient.
Partial hanging has a high risk of failure but full suspension hanging is more reliable but is more difficult to do and seems like it can be scary to do.
 
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R

rationaltake

Experienced
Sep 28, 2021
269
From what I can tell they support patients to do this if they are terminally ill. Anybody else who starves themselves would be considered mentally ill and would be force fed. In the UK at any rate.
 
blueclover_.

blueclover_.

Better Never to Have Been: 2006, David Benatar
Oct 11, 2021
377
I've been researching various suicide methods, and while N is undoubtedly the gold standard for CTB, followed by SN, access is becoming a bigger and bigger problem. It's possible that in 10 years there will be effectively no N or SN for anyone, leaving people to consider brutal methods.

I wanted to float the idea of VESD, a rarely discussed suicide method, with the addition of medical supervision. VESD is when you just stop eating and drinking, and you eventually slip into a coma and die. Hunger and thirst pretty much just wears off after the first couple days, and within 3-8 days you're in a coma. Sounds pretty nice, right? Well, not without medical supervision. VESD is frequently employed by terminally ill patients in places without PAS (physician-assisted suicide), but they are monitored and given drugs on demand. The main issue that people on SS have taken to VESD is the possibility of pain and other complications when done alone. But, since you have a right to refuse to eat or drink, and forcing one to do so is personal assault, in theory this means you could have a quite peaceful death in the confines of a hospital.

Is there anything I'm missing or am I potentially onto something?
Hunger is nothing compared to thirst and dehydration. After 3 days without water your organs would start to fail, if you're saved in time, you're 100% going to suffer from organ failures. People who were stranded in a desert were in extreme mental torture and experiencing hallucinations, all because of dehydration. That's not painless nor peaceful.
 
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S

setup

Experienced
Nov 18, 2021
208
Honestly before I found this forum, some guy on quota said death by gas inhalation isn’t too bad. Apparently u die from co if u put a doused rag on your face. Idk tho it’s the internet.
 
F

FromGermany

Experienced
Oct 23, 2021
203
Only because Nitschke is pushing SN as the "new N" does not mean, there is any gold in it. Some people focus on successes to have some kind of confirmation but do ignore or forget failures.

There is more one can learn from the failures than from the successes.

As @sandalphon mentioned, VESD does only work with people, who are very old or already almost dead. It's one of these theoretically methods, which will not work for the majority of people, like this is also the case with partial or night-night.

The only peaceful methode aside of N is the Nitrogen method. If done properly and with the correct equipment, sitting in an armchair or lying on the bed, watching a Youtube video of fishes in the ocean, three breaths to unconsciousness, and you will never wake up again.
 
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Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,452
VSED is about as serious a method as holding your breath until you die. It isn't peaceful, is a drawn out process and after so long you will become mentally ill enough to be sectioned and forcefed. Absolutely ridiculous notion which nobody should consider.
 
DetachedDreamer97

DetachedDreamer97

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2018
1,114
Only because Nitschke is pushing SN as the "new N" does not mean, there is any gold in it.
And I took that literally.

In all seriousness, the true rival, if one can successfully extract it would be taxine from the yew leaves.

I’m doing my extraction right now after numerous attempts and I’m going to be the one to ace it. And when that’s all done and over with, I’ll take a sample to test it out with my failed batch (bad yield).
D7E921FE-F796-4067-BC68-A07699F5F3EE.jpeg
This is my taxine as a fumarate salt.

With it being nigh pure, there’s no way I can suffer as I’ve gotten rid of the oils, formic acid, tannins, and ephedrine.
 
L

Lucas70

Member
Nov 23, 2021
39
VSED is impossible to do.When you are weak,the SI takes over your mind.You become the mind itself and will be defeated.The Jains religion practice Santhara or salekhanna same as VSED but it is done by the helps of other people.When the person is already weak,he can't stop the process because everybody kind of forcing him to continue.,you can watch yt.This is not impossible as I've tried 3 weeks no food and drink and it is impossible unless there is somebody to help you to force you and to remind or deny your last SI request to discontinue the process.
 
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Apathetic999

Apathetic999

Student
Mar 9, 2020
179
I could see myself not eating until I go into cardiac arrest, given my history of anorexia and lack of appetite, but I don't think I could ctb by dehydration. Went to the hospital once for dehydration because it was absolutely awful and almost experienced kidney failure
 
S

Someone123

Arcanist
Oct 19, 2021
441
I could see myself not eating until I go into cardiac arrest, given my history of anorexia and lack of appetite, but I don't think I could ctb by dehydration. Went to the hospital once for dehydration because it was absolutely awful and almost experienced kidney failure
The record for surviving without water is 18 days- a prisoner who was locked up and forgotten about. But dehydration causes a person to go crazy long before it kills a person- yuor mind stops functioning. Dying by dehydration through willpower is virtually impossible because you won't be able to control your mind until the end- ths mind starts malfunctioning a lot as water gets low.
 
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Glovkenspiel

Specialist
Nov 12, 2021
382
The record for surviving without water is 18 days- a prisoner who was locked up and forgotten about. But dehydration causes a person to go crazy long before it kills a person- yuor mind stops functioning. Dying by dehydration through willpower is virtually impossible because you won't be able to control your mind until the end- ths mind starts malfunctioning a lot as water gets
Sounds incredibly painful
 
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