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kiuya

kiuya

Tired
Nov 16, 2021
40
Tysm! Though this is temporary, this makes me and probably many others feel pretty safe. Maybe we should make some easy-to-doxx areas unreachable for non-registered users permanently? Ex. people post just loads about themselves to the introduce yourself thread, and you can easily search up info about someone using the search bar even though you cannot access other people's profiles without registering.
 
L

Life sucks

Enlightened
Apr 18, 2018
1,923
This is a great idea and makes the place safer and more secure. Even if some people make fake accounts, not everyone is going to register and this filters out a big amount.

For new members, it's possible to make a system or something to monitor suspicious behavior. There are other ideas also like reward system (although personally I don't like this type) by having certain amount of posts, positive reactions. Whatever the way is to deal with this problem , it's not impossible to implement.
 
S

Secrets1

Experienced
Nov 18, 2019
287
I think it’s a good idea to keep this forum private until things are starting to calm down. They will calm down eventually.
Agreed and Rain rocks!!! Will NYT report on the people who CTB via SN and learned about it from there report? I don’t wish for anyone to die because of NYT but it’s going to happen. Measuring that would be a hell of a story.

One day I guarantee the general public will recognize the need for a space like this instead of trying to brandish the suicidal mentally ill with scarlet letters and think their words make a difference as if we’ve never tried to improve our own lives in thousands of ways. For “smart journalists” I am still shocked at how badly they misjudged the situation. The only other possible explanation is they got so caught up in career and ego they forgot about what an oxymoronic act it was and accompanying literal casualties resulting from their journalistic crusade.
 
BornDead

BornDead

Path2Enlightenment
Dec 13, 2021
10
Argh. I hate journalists. We should be able to die frelly without opposition. If he'll is real then all who want me to suffer should be satisfied.
 
Manaaja

Manaaja

euROPE
Sep 10, 2018
910
A really smart choice, right now it's a bit too "dangerous" to have the forum open, or at least very uncomfortable. People often forget quickly and move on, so maybe if we kept this forum hidden for one month, the situation might be much better then and we could re-open. And if the situation is still bad, we can re-close.

Now that we have sadly lost admins, I think adding one or two mods would help too.

And I'd really like some sort of "this person is anti-suicide" reporting system to catch people who are anti-suicide. Something like "If five different people report a user for acting too anti-suicide, mods will check their posts to determine if they really are pro or anti-suicide and give them a temporary ban in case they are (or a permanent ban if it's really bad)". I'm suggesting this, because a couple of times I have seen posts from a few users who seem really anti-suicide but aren't breaking any rules (to my knowledge) and thus I don't know if I should use the normal report button or contact the mods or just ignore.

By anti-suicide posts I mean posts like "No person under 50 years old should ctb no matter what the situation!" or "You should never ctb just because you have a severe autism and ADHD and you feel your everyday life is hell!". I don't mean posts like "You want to ctb just because your bf/gf cheated on you? If your life is otherwise okay, I think you should first try to calm down for a month or two and then try to find a new gf/bf, before doing anything drastic".
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,821
By anti-suicide posts I mean posts like "No person under 50 years old should ctb no matter what the situation!" or "You should never ctb just because you have a severe autism and ADHD and you feel your everyday life is hell!". I don't mean posts like "You want to ctb just because your bf/gf cheated on you? If your life is otherwise okay, I think you should first try to calm down for a month or two and then try to find a new gf/bf, before doing anything drastic".
This sounds like distinct lines being drawn over a very grey area and would be a bad idea imo - particularly when imo many members of this forum have developed a habit of pointing at any old shit they don't like and calling it "pro life", and others enjoy doing "how pro-choice are you" interrogations according to their own narrow and often hazy definition of the term.

Also l wouldn't like to see the new admin rush to appoint mods fwiw, often the people most keen on being granted a position carrying a modicum of power are, by definition, those least equipped to wield that power appropriately and it's important that this is given due consideration.
 
Manaaja

Manaaja

euROPE
Sep 10, 2018
910
This sounds like distinct lines being drawn over a very grey area and would be a bad idea imo - particularly when imo many members of this forum have developed a habit of pointing at any old shit they don't like and calling it "pro life", and others enjoy doing "how pro-choice are you" interrogations according to their own narrow and often hazy definition of the term.

Also l wouldn't like to see the new admin rush to appoint mods fwiw, often the people most keen on being granted a position carrying a modicum of power are, by definition, those least equipped to wield that power appropriately and it's important that this is given due consideration.
That's why I said that we should require something like five different people plus a mod and that's why the ban should be temporary. If six different people say someone is suspicious, then we should heed them, especially if there have been several anti-suicide posts from one user.

Sometimes some people are wary of new users who they don't know and trust yet and will question their motives, but otherwise I haven't seen any interrogations, especially against people who have been here for more than four months and have several posts, and only once I have seen rumors against a member whose account was older and even in that case it wasn't a serious accusation, more like "That one poster seems pretty anti-suicide sometimes".

I don't mean we should rush it. There might be more important things for them to take care of right now. Times are really stressful right now for everyone, so I think we should wait until the dust has cleared. The mods should decide who to mod and I agree that they should carefully consider it. Or if they decide to not mod anyone, that's okay too.

If they decide to get new mods, I want people who can be as good as the previous mods have been. I also don't want the mod promotions to be a popularity contest, on other forums I've seen too many cases where some people are modded just because they are popular and then the site goes to hell because being popular or even well-liked doesn't translate to "being a good mod". The most important thing for a mod is a correct personality, being able to remain calm and unbiased, not taking sides, someone who is fair and doesn't use the ban hammer lightly, someone who can withstand the mental stress. I think for many being a mod would be too stressful since many of us already have stressful lives and little mental energy. And being active is good too. Of course, the person should also want to be a mod, no one should be modded without their permission.
 
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blueclover_.

blueclover_.

Better Never to Have Been: 2006, David Benatar
Oct 11, 2021
639
And I'd really like some sort of "this person is anti-suicide" reporting system to catch people who are anti-suicide. Something like "If five different people report a user for acting too anti-suicide, mods will check their posts to determine if they really are pro or anti-suicide and give them a temporary ban in case they are (or a permanent ban if it's really bad)". I'm suggesting this, because a couple of times I have seen posts from a few users who seem really anti-suicide but aren't breaking any rules (to my knowledge) and thus I don't know if I should use the normal report button or contact the mods or just ignore.

By anti-suicide posts I mean posts like "No person under 50 years old should ctb no matter what the situation!" or "You should never ctb just because you have a severe autism and ADHD and you feel your everyday life is hell!". I don't mean posts like "You want to ctb just because your bf/gf cheated on you? If your life is otherwise okay, I think you should first try to calm down for a month or two and then try to find a new gf/bf, before doing anything drastic".
I support this idea. I've had to report disguised pro-lifers several times and typing the reasons was a bit inconvenient. With a 'report pro-lifer' button, we can eliminate impostors quickly and efficiently. It is crucial to keep this forum safe. Of course the mods have to investigate the reports first, but it'd be so much quicker because they can put this type of reports as top priority above the regular troll-reports.
 
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blue

blue

Member
Jul 21, 2019
55
Is there a way to see how many people have viewed the article?
NYT is one of the largest and most read papers in the US, if not the world. You can assume at a minimum hundreds of thousands and at a maximum, millions.
They also used this story on their daily podcast, The Daily (how I originally heard it). The Daily picks an issue/news story a day and focuses an entire episode on just that one issue.
 
Sans

Sans

HE AIN'T GONNA JUMP NO MORE!
Oct 2, 2019
227
Those 26 thugs must be foaming at the mouth with rage. I love it.
 
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Geturdone

Geturdone

Getting old ain't for sissies
Dec 9, 2021
85
I think this is an excellent idea. I have myself noticed a huge upsurge in controversial, hateful and just blatantly rule breaking posts mostly by new members in this forum of late. Call me paranoid but I think all the publicity has attracted not only trolls, but has brought forth some very cruel sides of people here who feel emboldened by the controversy. This is supposed to be a place where we can express our feelings regarding our ideation and the causes of it, not some place to spout vitriol and hatred. And before anyone starts with the bullshit about free speech, there are PLENTY of places you can espouse your hateful rhetoric. It seems to me some people won't be happy until every single forum, comment section and blog on the internet is a fucking combat zone.
My personal hope is you either reported those folks or called them out. Bullies cannot tolerate it. We all have our resonable expectation of privacy and I don't want anyone to be able to read my private conversations. AIN'T RIGHT!!!
 
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justsayin

justsayin

Member
Jan 30, 2021
387
Also l wouldn't like to see the new admin rush to appoint mods fwiw, often the people most keen on being granted a position carrying a modicum of power are, by definition, those least equipped to wield that power appropriately and it's important that this is given due consideration.

This is true. A couple of bad mods can kill a forum faster than any NYT article.
 
Circles

Circles

There's a difference between existing and living.
Sep 3, 2018
1,723
I kind of wish this wasn’t temporary but even if it wasn’t, the issue doesn’t seem to be solved since they sadly seem to already have accounts even ones that have been here for years…
Yea I was kinda on the fence about this but now given the situation I wish this would stay permanent. For example in the Daily podcast the people who wrote the paper and doxxed the admins said they were digging for info about them for months. And hell they still found Marquis and Serge even though they are tech nuts who knows all about hiding their digital trail. They found one of them living in Uruguay of all places. My point being is what's to say it won't happen again? This will not die down especially given the Interpol situation also.
 
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Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,821
I support this idea. I've had to report disguised pro-lifers several times and typing the reasons was a bit inconvenient. With a 'report pro-lifer' button, we can eliminate impostors quickly and efficiently. It is crucial to keep this forum safe. Of course the mods have to investigate the reports first, but it'd be so much quicker because they can put this type of reports as top priority above the regular troll-reports.
This all sounds fair enough but l was reported for being a "pro lifer" a week or so ago, if these reports take priority over others it could mean that weak reports on this basis take priority over strong reports on other conduct (N scamming being the obvious, but other conduct such as racism, homophobia/transphobia, abusive use of the block function where members are trash-talked behind a block etc etc).

It's worth noting that some reports submitted are done so for reasons of personal griping, I've been reported previously by actual N scammers, manipulators, dubious alt accounts etc in the past without much merit and l feel a "one click high priority" report facility could be used the same way. I strongly suspect Mods have to sift through a pile of reports which are often garbage, fwiw l rarely report for this reason and instead put any issue out in the open.

Further, there is no concrete agreed position on what "pro choice" means on this forum and this is often a topic of debate, I've seen enough suggestion on here that some folk are "pro life" by being insufficiently "pro death", if this is ever to be discussed healthily, and it is frequently debated, the quality of discussion would suffer from reduced contribution, as some may be fearful of copping a report for not fitting another person's misguided idea of what "pro choice" is.
 
blueclover_.

blueclover_.

Better Never to Have Been: 2006, David Benatar
Oct 11, 2021
639
This all sounds fair enough but l was reported for being a "pro lifer" a week or so ago, if these reports take priority over others it could mean that weak reports on this basis take priority over strong reports on other conduct (N scamming being the obvious, but other conduct such as racism, homophobia/transphobia, abusive use of the block function where members are trash-talked behind a block etc etc).
I think the mods should make categories of reports, and there should be teams assigned to investigate the reports in each category.

There should be a 'Trolling' category of reports which includes racism, bigotry, rude comments, etc., there should be a 'Suspicious Activity' category of reports which includes N scamming reports and anti-choice/pro-life actions.

It's worth noting that some reports submitted are done so for reasons of personal griping, I've been reported previously by actual N scammers, manipulators, dubious alt accounts etc in the past without much merit and l feel a "one click high priority" report facility could be used the same way. I strongly suspect Mods have to sift through a pile of reports which are often garbage, fwiw l rarely report for this reason and instead put any issue out in the open.
That's why the mods should really assign specialized teams to investigate each report, so that they can make just decisions according to context. Yes the priority thing could be problematic. I think putting all the reports into different categories and assign different teams to investigate those reports will be the best option, since every team will put the reports in their assigned category as top priority, thus resulting in every report being investigated as thoroughly as the others.


Further, there is no concrete agreed position on what "pro choice" means on this forum and this is often a topic of debate, I've seen enough suggestion on here that some folk are "pro life" by being insufficiently "pro death", if this is ever to be discussed healthily, and it is frequently debated, the quality of discussion would suffer from reduced contribution, as some may be fearful of copping a report for not fitting another person's misguided idea of what "pro choice" is.
Most people are unfamiliar with the term, so there may be some confusion. But i am sure the mods are hyper-aware of the qualifications to be called a 'pro-lifer', therefore the regular members' confusion should not affect the investigation made by an experienced mod. Overtime there will be threads made by regular members to learn what 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice' truly mean, but the investigation teams should not be affected by this because they have been through so many battles with anti-choice groups, they know far more than anyone on this forum whether someone is anti-suicide/anti-choice or not. Furthermore, their main duty is to determine whether a particular member is a threat to the forum or not, so even if the term 'pro-life' is too confusing for the regular members, they can just change it to be a 'Suspicious Activity' button or other terms with the same meaning; a threat to the existence of this forum.
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
1,602
Thanks for the feedback!

This measure obviously isn't going to keep out all people that have bad intentions but I'm sure most of them are locked out at the moment. They most likely have accounts but if we find them, they'll get banned. It's very simple. And some of them are already gone...
I'm not quite sure how long we're gonna keep the forum private but I'm definitely gonna be careful going forward. I don't intend to keep this forum private forever but maybe we can keep up additional layers of privacy for some sections of the forum. Right now I'm only concerned with the comfort and well-being of the community. I certainly don't care about the opinion of the public and how they interpret the current inaccessability of the forum. I've explained why I did this and I'm confident this was the right decision based on the overhelmingly positive feedback. But we'll discuss this once the situation has calmed down. I'm definitely gonna take the opinion of this community into consideration when I make a decision.
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,821
I think the mods should make categories of reports, and there should be teams assigned to investigate the reports in each category.

There should be a 'Trolling' category of reports which include racism, bigotry, rude comments, etc., there should be a 'Suspicious Activity' category of reports which include N scamming reports and anti-choice/pro-life actions.


That's why the mods should really assign specialized teams to investigate each report, so that they can make just decisions according to context. Yes the priority thing could be problematic. I think putting all the reports into different categories and assign different teams to investigate those reports will be the best option, since every team will put the reports in their assigned category as top priority, thus resulting in every report being investigated as thoroughly as the others.


Most people are unfamiliar with the term, so there may be some confusion. But i am sure the mods are hyper-aware of the qualifications to be called a 'pro-lifer', therefore the regular members' confusion should not affect the investigation made by an experienced mod. Overtime there will be threads made by regular members to learn what 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice' truly mean, but the investigation teams should not be affected by this because their main duty is to determine whether a particular member is a threat to the forum or not.

This is a very thoughtful post and is put very persuasively, l don't agree with all of it and am disinclined to continue much further for fear of thread derailment but imo this is a discussion worth having, regarding what we could expect from our moderators and in turn what they expect from us, so I'll reply to this post and then leave it there.

I'm very wary of additional tools, for me the block tool was a huge misstep and reporting is scattergun - l rarely report, others report with enthusiasm. It's also fair to say that decisions made by moderators are not always consistent imo, l offer this as observation rather than criticism and this probably applies more to previous rather than current moderators, but the idea of specifically assigned moderator task forces will lead to further inconsistencies imo, and the adoption of additional unnecessary report tools could well lead to a hefty backlog of trash reports, or even malicious ones. I dare say I've been on the receiving end of more reports to staff than "Emma Davis" ever has in her multiple guises - or any other shady manipulator for that matter, and it's important to strike that balance between a community that is appropriately vigilant to protect itself and a hyper-vigilant community that has numerous tools enabling folk to press a big rage button which generates unnecessary workload for moderators.
 
GentleSoul

GentleSoul

Here, but not 'there'...
Dec 14, 2021
437
Due to censorship in my country, for quite some time I was unable to make an account- and could only view the site with a VPN or via proxy. I was having some technical issue with using a proxy to register...

There is practically no like-minded community, understanding or support for suicide to be found anywhere where I live. When the site stopped non-members from access, I have to admit it left me feeling lost and alone. A Nietzche quote comes to mind: "The thought of suicide is a great consolation. By means of it, one can get through many a dark night." With some luck and a VPN instead of proxies, I managed to successfully register after a few suspenseful days of waiting (thank you admins!)

On the other hand, I'm sure that only a very small minority are in my situation. I think that the admins of this site are tasked with a tremendous responsibility, doing what they see as right for the future of the community and the best interests of its members.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,179
I thought the NYT was a credible institution. I read the article and it was poorly written. I wonder how many articles about other subculture groups are blatant lies. They straight up fabricated lies and portrayed SS as some kind of death cult. This is the last bastion for suicide discussion on the internet. It is not a crime to talk about suicide. No mater how much society tries to silence us.
 
Simba

Simba

Missunderstood Potato
Dec 9, 2018
572
I thought the NYT was a credible institution. I read the article and it was poorly written. I wonder how many articles about other subculture groups are blatant lies. They straight up fabricated lies and portrayed SS as some kind of death cult. This is the last bastion for suicide discussion on the internet. It is not a crime to talk about suicide. No mater how much society tries to silence us.
They can silence us as much as they want but we will continue to rise up from the ashes we will stand our fucking ground cause our community has every fucking right to exist whether they like it or not !!
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,179
They can silence us as much as they want but we will continue to rise up from the ashes we will stand our fucking ground cause our community has every fucking right to exist whether they like it or not !!

It's these assholes that drive us to suicide in the first place. We are hounded even as we are trying to die. Just let us go in peace for fucks sake. Can't these people have the dignity just to leave us alone.
 
Green Destiny

Green Destiny

Life isn't worth the trouble.
Nov 16, 2019
645
Honestly I'm leaning towards the party of leaving the site the way it is now, with only registered members being allowed to see the full site. I know this won't prevent people who want to tear this site down from still trying to do so, but I think the less is seeable for the Public the better. I don't know if SS still has a Twitter handle but I thought being so open in such a toxic domain like Twitter was just a bad idea overall, inviting even more conflict. Of course this isn't my call nor do I want it to be so I leave it up to you @RainAndSadness we have your full support no matter what.