Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
So my family is very religious and I been heavily indoctrinated, since childhood, and I am a very gullible person.
I think I'm agnostic, because I can't seem to force myself to beleive and I can't force myself to not beleive. I'm all mixed up.
I don't know why I do this to my self but I have a daily bible verse app, that sends me a verse each day. Anyone is welcomed to comment their opinion on each of the passages that I post here, I will post the ones that I have trouble with and I will post the reason why I have trouble with. I hope u guys don't mind.
And I'm not trying to impose any religious beliefs on anyone, I'm not trying to preach.
I just don't know what to think about these, and maybe a second opinion will help.
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
This is today's bible verse and I have trouble with this one because the bible itself is not trying to hide the fact that even the closest apostles of Jesus were confused about what Jesus was saying.
Just as I'm confused about what Jesus is saying in these verses.
Makes me feel that there is "some" truth here.

Jesus said to his disciples, “Don't be worried! Have faith in God and have faith in me. There are many rooms in my Father's house. I wouldn't tell you this, unless it was true. I am going there to prepare a place for each of you. After I have done this, I will come back and take you with me. Then we will be together. You know the way to where I am going.” Thomas said, “Lord, we don't even know where you are going! How can we know the way?” “I am the way, the truth, and the life!” Jesus answered. “Without me, no one can go to the Father. If you had really known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need.” Jesus replied: Philip, I have been with you for a long time. Don't you know who I am? If you have seen me, you have seen the Father. How can you ask me to show you the Father? Don't you believe that I am one with the Father and that the Father is one with me? What I say isn't said on my own. The Father who lives in me does these things. Have faith in me when I say that the Father is one with me and that I am one with the Father. Or else have faith in me simply because of the things I do. I tell you for certain that if you have faith in me, you will do the same things I am doing. You will do even greater things, now that I am going back to the Father. Ask me, and I will do whatever you ask. This way the Son will bring honor to the Father. I will do whatever you ask me to do. Jesus said to his disciples: If you love me, you will do as I command. Then I will ask the Father to send you the Holy Spirit who will help you and always be with you. The Spirit will show you what is true. The people of this world cannot accept the Spirit, because they don't see or know him. But you know the Spirit, who is with you and will keep on living in you. I won't leave you like orphans. I will come back to you. In a little while the people of this world won't be able to see me, but you will see me. And because I live, you will live. Then you will know I am one with the Father. You will know you are one with me, and I am one with you. If you love me, you will do what I have said, and my Father will love you. I will also love you and show you what I am like. The other Judas, not Judas Iscariot, then spoke up and asked, “Lord, what do you mean by saying that you will show us what you are like, but you will not show the people of this world?” Jesus replied: If anyone loves me, they will obey me. Then my Father will love them, and we will come to them and live in them. But anyone who doesn't love me, won't obey me. What they have heard me say doesn't really come from me, but from the Father who sent me. I have told you these things while I am still with you. But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place. The Spirit will teach you everything and will remind you of what I said while I was with you. I give you peace, the kind of peace only I can give. It isn't like the peace this world can give. So don't be worried or afraid. You have already heard me say I am going and I will also come back to you. If you really love me, you should be glad I am going back to the Father, because he is greater than I am. I am telling you this before I leave, so when it does happen, you will have faith in me. I cannot speak with you much longer, because the ruler of this world is coming. But he has no power over me. I obey my Father, so everyone in the world might know that I love him. It is time for us to go now.
John 14:1‭-‬31 CEVDC
https://bible.com/bible/303/jhn.14.1-31.CEVDC
 
YaYaDr

YaYaDr

Student
Jun 26, 2018
128
I'm confused too. Isn't it funny that the inspired word of god is the source of so much confusion in our world? You would think that a perfect being would be better able to express himself, wouldn't you? Cheer up DefinitelyWorried :^) These are just stories.
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
I'm confused too. Isn't it funny that the inspired word of god is the source of so much confusion in our world? You would think that a perfect being would be better able to express himself, wouldn't you? Cheer up DefinitelyWorried :^) These are just stories.
Thanks for your reply. It's not going to be easy for me to get past all the religious stuff. Maybe I'll even be praying when I die, thinking I'll be going to hell.
Sometimes I think all my family even though they are christians will end up going to hell too.
This world is freaking scary in my opinion. I hate it.
Thanks for your reply.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Volatile and YaYaDr
Nauseated

Nauseated

Insomnio
Jun 26, 2018
224
The thing is struggle with when it comes to belief is that god gave us logic but believing in these stories kind of goes against logic how is the responsibility to believe on us. Seems like a stupid game to me where if you end up losing the stakes are going burning in hell fire for eternity. Who would create such a rigged game unless they were secretly evil.
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

-
Jun 17, 2018
1,364
I was a Christian too, indoctrinated since childhood. Then one day I wanted to beat my meat legally and I decided to stop believing in fairy tales. (forgive me father, but you look like a person blessed with reason, I don't understand why you still believe in this religion)
 
M

musicislife

-
Jun 15, 2018
159
I was a Christian too, indoctrinated since childhood. Then one day I wanted to beat my meat legally and I decided to stop believing in fairy tales. (forgive me father, but you look like a person blessed with reason, I don't understand why you still believe in this religion)
Yep totally get the indoctrinated vibe as that was me too until the age of 12 when my Grandmother died. I used to say prayers nightly an Our Father, a Hail Mary and a Prayer for the Dead!! Thats what happens when you attend a Catholic school and church from the age of 5 to 12. If they could they have you longer and you become one of the lost souls you see attending church on a Sunday preaching to what Donald Trump would call FAKE NEWS !!!! I no longer say a prayer and I certainly wont be having any last rites when my time to ctb comes
 
  • Like
Reactions: shinitai and Smilla
M

MAIO

Elementalist
Apr 8, 2018
838
I can tell you this : If you really WANT to believe there's a spider in your head, I can make you believe it 100% with little labor. The problem is you WANT to believe the religion and you will do it no matter how false it's proven to be.

Belief is not a choice. You believe things do to evidence, prespective, indoctornation, brain chem etc. Ie you can't choose to believe Flordia in the artic circle. You know it's not. Or I can't choose to just believe there are magical unicorns rulling evreything even if I want to.
 
Aponia & Ataraxia

Aponia & Ataraxia

Experienced
Jun 24, 2018
235
72e57c34c5ff9fc4cb925aeb025db621.jpg

I was a Christian too, indoctrinated since childhood. Then one day I wanted to beat my meat legally and I decided to stop believing in fairy tales. (forgive me father, but you look like a person blessed with reason, I don't understand why you still believe in this religion)
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
Belief is not a choice. You believe things do to evidence, prespective, indoctornation, brain chem etc. Ie you can't choose to believe Flordia in the artic circle. You know it's not. Or I can't choose to just believe there are magical unicorns rulling evreything even if I want to.
I agree with this, that beleif is not a choise, if I could choose I would beleive 100% in God, however since I have doubts about religion, I definitely would not mind beleiving there is no God with 100% certainty. Too bad I fall right in the middle.
It's difficult to relate to strong believers and it's difficult to relate to stout atheist.
But I totally agree with this comment thanks, MAIO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MAIO
Fylobatica

Fylobatica

Inactive
Apr 1, 2018
365
I'm not religious in any way, but you shouldn't be terrified by man-made words.

Despite their claims, no religion whatsoever knows what's right and what's wrong.

For what people know, there might even be a pantheon of 'gods' who like those who've committed atrocities in life. Hence the concepts of heaven and hell would be swapped and 'evil people' would be praised.

Not that I find this particularly meaningful, however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YaYaDr
Nzbeelover

Nzbeelover

-
Jul 1, 2018
100
This is today's bible verse and I have trouble with this one because the bible itself is not trying to hide the fact that even the closest apostles of Jesus were confused about what Jesus was saying.
Just as I'm confused about what Jesus is saying in these verses.
Makes me feel that there is "some" truth here.

Jesus said to his disciples, “Don't be worried! Have faith in God and have faith in me. There are many rooms in my Father's house. I wouldn't tell you this, unless it was true. I am going there to prepare a place for each of you. After I have done this, I will come back and take you with me. Then we will be together. You know the way to where I am going.” Thomas said, “Lord, we don't even know where you are going! How can we know the way?” “I am the way, the truth, and the life!” Jesus answered. “Without me, no one can go to the Father. If you had really known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need.” Jesus replied: Philip, I have been with you for a long time. Don't you know who I am? If you have seen me, you have seen the Father. How can you ask me to show you the Father? Don't you believe that I am one with the Father and that the Father is one with me? What I say isn't said on my own. The Father who lives in me does these things. Have faith in me when I say that the Father is one with me and that I am one with the Father. Or else have faith in me simply because of the things I do. I tell you for certain that if you have faith in me, you will do the same things I am doing. You will do even greater things, now that I am going back to the Father. Ask me, and I will do whatever you ask. This way the Son will bring honor to the Father. I will do whatever you ask me to do. Jesus said to his disciples: If you love me, you will do as I command. Then I will ask the Father to send you the Holy Spirit who will help you and always be with you. The Spirit will show you what is true. The people of this world cannot accept the Spirit, because they don't see or know him. But you know the Spirit, who is with you and will keep on living in you. I won't leave you like orphans. I will come back to you. In a little while the people of this world won't be able to see me, but you will see me. And because I live, you will live. Then you will know I am one with the Father. You will know you are one with me, and I am one with you. If you love me, you will do what I have said, and my Father will love you. I will also love you and show you what I am like. The other Judas, not Judas Iscariot, then spoke up and asked, “Lord, what do you mean by saying that you will show us what you are like, but you will not show the people of this world?” Jesus replied: If anyone loves me, they will obey me. Then my Father will love them, and we will come to them and live in them. But anyone who doesn't love me, won't obey me. What they have heard me say doesn't really come from me, but from the Father who sent me. I have told you these things while I am still with you. But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place. The Spirit will teach you everything and will remind you of what I said while I was with you. I give you peace, the kind of peace only I can give. It isn't like the peace this world can give. So don't be worried or afraid. You have already heard me say I am going and I will also come back to you. If you really love me, you should be glad I am going back to the Father, because he is greater than I am. I am telling you this before I leave, so when it does happen, you will have faith in me. I cannot speak with you much longer, because the ruler of this world is coming. But he has no power over me. I obey my Father, so everyone in the world might know that I love him. It is time for us to go now.
John 14:1‭-‬31 CEVDC
https://bible.com/bible/303/jhn.14.1-31.CEVDC
Hi :)

I think God is trying to show you a message DeeplyWorried
He is trying to reach out to you and he wants you to see his ways and love you, uplift you and show you that there are reasons to Live.

Sorry I'm not trying to force these things apon you but I felt that this is what is happening and wanted to share.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MAIO
S

Strumgewehr

-
Jun 7, 2018
271
Belief is not a choice. You believe things do to evidence, prespective, indoctornation, brain chem etc. Ie you can't choose to believe Flordia in the artic circle. You know it's not. Or I can't choose to just believe there are magical unicorns rulling evreything even if I want to.
It is indeed a choice. I only believe things due to the evidence and by calculating it's probability of it being true given a particular scenario. And there are some people who choose to and believe Australia doesn't exist or that the earth is flat.
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
It is indeed a choice. I only believe things due to the evidence and by calculating it's probability of it being true given a particular scenario. And there are some people who choose to and believe Australia doesn't exist or that the earth is flat.
To me what I beleive is not a choice. I wish to beleive my life is fine, and I wish to beleive that there is no pain in this world, but I can't beleive that no matter how much I choose to beleive that.
 
S

Strumgewehr

-
Jun 7, 2018
271
To me what I beleive is not a choice. I wish to beleive my life is fine, and I wish to beleive that there is no pain in this world, but I can't beleive that no matter how much I choose to beleive that.

Believing that your life is fine and there is no pain on the earth is a choice as well. To prove my point, normies choose to believe the aforementioned statement because that makes them feel comfortable and happy. It's not like they don't have access to information proving how horrible this blue ball of grief is. It's that they just choose ignore it while you don't/cant.
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
Believing that your life is fine and there is no pain on the earth is a choice as well. To prove my point, normies choose to believe the aforementioned statement because that makes them feel comfortable and happy. It's not like they don't have access to information proving how horrible this blue ball of grief is. It's that they just choose ignore it while you don't/cant.
If I could choose to ignore it I would.
What I beleive is involuntary to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nzbeelover
M

MAIO

Elementalist
Apr 8, 2018
838
It is indeed a choice. I only believe things due to the evidence and by calculating it's probability of it being true given a particular scenario. And there are some people who choose to and believe Australia doesn't exist or that the earth is flat.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201109/disbelief-is-not-choice?amp

https://samharris.org/the-illusion-of-free-will/

People do not choose to belief Austrila does not exsit. That is not how believe works. Beliving believe works this ways enables you to feel superior etc.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Definitelyworried
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201109/disbelief-is-not-choice?amp

People do not choose to belief Austrila does not exsit. That is not how believe works. Beliving believe works this ways enables you to feel superior etc.
It really sucks when people tell me that I have to try harder to beleive in relegious or vise versa, because I feel it's totally out of my control, but this chat has made me feel a bit better since I'm venting. Thanks for understanding how I feel MAOI.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LIFEFUCKINGSUCKS
M

MAIO

Elementalist
Apr 8, 2018
838
It really sucks when people tell me that I have to try harder to beleive in relegious or vise versa, because I feel it's totally out of my control, but this chat has made me feel a bit better since I'm venting. Thanks for understanding how I feel MAOI.

It is completely out of your control. Belief is a combination of environment and brain chem, most people don't like accepting this due to lack of information and that they may actually have to respect other people's beliefs.
 
Last edited:
YaYaDr

YaYaDr

Student
Jun 26, 2018
128
It is completely out of your control. Belief is a combination of environment and brain chem, most people don't like accepting this due to lack of information and that they may actually have to respect other people's beliefs.
I couldn't agree more. This is the illusion of free will. I liked how Alex J OConnor described it. To paraphrase, free will is an illusion. Everything that you do in your life is either because you are forced to do it or because you want to do it. Sometimes there is conflict. Your wants might be in opposition with one another when, for example, you don't want to go to the gym but you want to be healthy. In those cases, the stronger desire wins out. Now here's the kicker. You cannot control your wants. Try to stop loving something (a person, a hobby, a song, etc.). Nobody can convince you something is not worth loving by just saying "he's no good for you", "that's a waste of time", or "this sounds horrible". A want needs to override the love somehow. But fear not, one of the ways to change your wants is as MAIO suggests to alter your brain composition. The way to do that is through indoctrination or education. We've already seen how indoctrination works, now let's give education a chance.
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
Jesus said to his disciples: I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts away every branch of mine that doesn't produce fruit. But he trims clean every branch that does produce fruit, so that it will produce even more fruit. You are already clean because of what I have said to you. Stay joined to me, and I will stay joined to you. Just as a branch cannot produce fruit unless it stays joined to the vine, you cannot produce fruit unless you stay joined to me. I am the vine, and you are the branches. If you stay joined to me, and I stay joined to you, then you will produce lots of fruit. But you cannot do anything without me. If you don't stay joined to me, you will be thrown away. You will be like dry branches that are gathered up and burned in a fire. Stay joined to me and let my teachings become part of you. Then you can pray for whatever you want, and your prayer will be answered. When you become fruitful disciples of mine, my Father will be honored. I have loved you, just as my Father has loved me. So remain faithful to my love for you. If you obey me, I will keep loving you, just as my Father keeps loving me, because I have obeyed him. I have told you this to make you as completely happy as I am. Now I tell you to love each other, as I have loved you. The greatest way to show love for friends is to die for them. And you are my friends, if you obey me. Servants don't know what their master is doing, and so I don't speak to you as my servants. I speak to you as my friends, and I have told you everything my Father has told me. You did not choose me. I chose you and sent you out to produce fruit, the kind of fruit that will last. Then my Father will give you whatever you ask for in my name. So I command you to love each other.
John 15:1‭-‬17 CEVDC
https://bible.com/bible/303/jhn.15.1-17.CEVDC
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
I am the vine, and you are the branches. If you stay joined to me, and I stay joined to you, then you will produce lots of fruit. But you cannot do anything without me. If you don't stay joined to me, you will be thrown away. You will be like dry branches that are gathered up and burned in a fire.

This part hurts me because it feels like God is punishing me in this way. But it's not like I did it intentionally. I'm so mixed up. I'm in so much pain.
This is really bothering me when I'm trying to suicide.
I can't even die in peace.
 
Last edited:
YaYaDr

YaYaDr

Student
Jun 26, 2018
128
Certain trees can be grown from the branches alone. It's time for you to cast aside the vines of religion and find your own way.
 
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
Certain trees can be grown from the branches alone. It's time for you to cast aside the vines of religion and find your own way.
I'm not trying to debate I'm just being sincere about the way I think.
When you say this, first thing that comes to my mind is, that the bible is talking about grape branches, so it kind of doesn't work for "me" what you said.
It could be my ocd at causing me to think this way.
I'm really in a lot of pain. And I'm trapped in my mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nzbeelover
Definitelyworried

Definitelyworried

Member
Jun 19, 2018
555
Is deleting the bible app possible for you? Perhaps tempering your readings with a healthy dose of the skeptic's annotated bible is in order?
Again my ocd might cause me to feel even more uneasy for deleting the bible app. In a way making me feel guilty.
I'm in a messed up situation.
 

Similar threads