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Do you think we should keep our Twitter Account?

  • Yes

    Votes: 38 27.5%
  • No

    Votes: 86 62.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 10.1%

  • Total voters
    138
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
DoNotLet2

DoNotLet2

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Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
684
RainAndSadness said:
I disagree with the majority of people that participated in that poll. Having a Twitter account isn't necessary a bad thing if we believe that our position and values are legitimate. I'm confident we have the moral high ground. The issue is, we can't ever control the narrative or fight back on bad faith accusations if we're always defensive. No idea ever established itself by being merely passive - look at any civil rights movement in the history of mankind. I also think that people who voted 'No' in the poll subconsciously accept the narrative that we're evil and bad and harmful and that we need to hide in the darkness. I refuse this narrative.
Well it depends on our power whether you the moderators will be able to deal with such responsibility. I'm not saying being unable to do so is a bad thing. You guys have your own lives to handle. It's not necessarily a bad thing but if it's done badly it will be bad and that's why I'm skeptical. But if you think that you will handle this easily then go on with this twitter.

RainAndSadness said:
Being suicidal is okay and the legal and moral right to take your life and end your own suffering is very important if we want to pretend to live in a compassionate and empathic society. What empathic person is gonna prolong the unbearable suffering of a person that sincerely want to die? It's sad and I wish it wouldn't happen but I can speak from my own experience that reality isn't pink and bubbly. It's a cruel planet and I can't blame anyone that simply wants to leave for whatever reason. It's honestly not even my business to judge their reasons. Giving people the power to make this consenting and informed decision for themselves - and that includes giving them information - is crucial.
The problem is that some people are idiots. We are being raised to think that freedom is not needed and someone else should decide for us. But again if you think you can talk to them why not? We should break all taboo. We should talk about sex. About anything. And I would love to see someone saying something else about suicide rather then "it will be ok it will pass go to a psychiatrist you freak".

RainAndSadness said:
But I guess it's such an outrageous thing nowadays to simply say "My body, my life, my decision". And that decision might include ending all of it - that's part of being an autonomous human being. I have the legal and moral autonomy to decide over my own life, period. If saying those words is controversial, too controversial for a twitter account, we'd rather end the right to die movement right now.
In my country you could be attacked for such words and called "far left". Eh it's not even 100 years since we can choose our rulers. I'm angry at that too you know? I wish people understood us that the life is not always easy.

But if we don't try it will stay the same so we have to try... We just have to calculate and minimize the risks.

EDIT:
But of course if you decide to stay I will give you all my love to support you. Which isn't a lot but maybe it will be enough... Unless I forget which is likely but.... I hope you will succeed!
 
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Delia

Delia

Cerulean star
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
230
no, durr.
Plus people who actually try to stand up for this cause lowkey put themselves in danger if they do not use a throw away and such so like
 
braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Messages
346
RainAndSadness said:
I disagree with the majority of people that participated in that poll. Having a Twitter account isn't necessary a bad thing if we believe that our position and values are legitimate. I'm confident we have the moral high ground. The issue is, we can't ever control the narrative or fight back on bad faith accusations if we're always defensive. No idea ever established itself by being merely passive - look at any civil rights movement in the history of mankind. I also think that people who voted 'No' in the poll subconsciously accept the narrative that we're evil and bad and harmful and that we need to hide in the darkness. I refuse this narrative.

1." I'm confident we have the moral high ground. The issue is, we can't ever control the narrative or fight back on bad faith accusations if we're always defensive. "

You are confident we have the moral high ground. But if society has a different and more conservative moral ground, won't we be seen as the "irrational enemy" on a social media platform and only feed the narratives other people have?

Yes, we cannot control the narrative or fight back on bad faith accusations if we're defensive. Having a twitter account just to react to opposition and express our controversial viewpoints comes off as defensiveness to people of differing beliefs, doesn't it?

2. "No idea ever established itself by being merely passive - look at any civil rights movement in the history of mankind."

Every successful civil rights movement in the history of mankind involved banding together in a physical public setting to directly confront legislative harm being done to said community. Can we agree that expressing viewpoints on Twitter accomplishes neither of those? We are not banding together in person, and we are not directly trying to get the attention of legislators as other civil rights movements have done.

3. "I also think that people who voted 'No' in the poll subconsciously accept the narrative that we're evil and bad and harmful and that we need to hide in the darkness. I refuse this narrative."

How can you specify exactly what people are thinking and feeling when they vote "no"?

I voted "no" because I accept the narrative that we need to reserve this safe space and keep members, especially the ones who are too lethargic to even contribute to these conversations, safe. Civil rights movements in the past didn't involve going around promoting where all their private safe spaces were, and essentially "doxing" the homes of their community gatherings. That wasn't the point of the movements.

Can you please tell me how the hell you you can assume exactly what people are thinking when they vote?


4. "If saying those words is controversial, too controversial for a twitter account, we'd rather end the right to die movement right now."

No, you're misunderstanding. The words aren't too controversial for a twitter account. The kind of controversy we are discussing is incredbly counterproductive for one big reason:

1) On twitter, people are not in an emotional state to have their minds changed.
They are there to express their viewpoints in a few characters, which is not nearly sufficient enough to truly establish an argument. Sure, you can post articles, etc...but that's not where the hype on twitter comes from. People rarely take the time to read long articles. Just look at attention span studies nowadays. Controversy on twitter only stirs up dissension and reinforces everyone's beliefs. There's no evidence it actually is a productive way to advance a viewpoint and influence people to believe in something new. There are TONS of stories of ridiculous arguments and debates that take place on Twitter and lead to no positive outcome. Nothing but a stalemate. However, there are rarely any stories about the opposite taking place.

Can you please point me to a body of evidence that supports the productive value of having a twitter account?
There's already a ton of evidence people just have pointless and emotionally charged arguments that lead nowhere. So please show evidence of the opposite.
 
DoNotLet2

DoNotLet2

-
Joined
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Messages
684
Sorry but @braketimez is right I kinda think that you guys underestimate the challenge. Those won't be nice conversations with undereducated people. And if you fail it will have consequences for the website and us. And it also depends on followers' number. The more the harder.

@puppy9
XD I also dislike twitter you cannot post anything long there. Additionally there are some weird people.
 
Rn110bg101

Rn110bg101

I want to go home
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
418
Is there a way to report fixthe26 for targeted harassment or do you think Twitter would be in their favour?

I voted no for many reasons (from it being unneeded publicity, to not going to do anything as groups like fixthe are the real kids in this debate (as other people have proven)) but in the meantime, I don't think we should allow them to keep slandering us undisputed.

(But if debating them is a waste of time and not worth the energy, how can we stop them…?)
 
braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Joined
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Messages
346
DoNotLet2 said:
Sorry but @braketimez is right I kinda think that you guys underestimate the challenge. Those won't be nice conversations with undereducated people. And if you fail it will have consequences for the website and us. And it also depends on followers' number. The more the harder.

@puppy9
XD I also dislike twitter you cannot post anything long there. Additionally there are some weird people.

I appreciate the support.
Rn110bg101 said:
Is there a way to report fixthe26 for targeted harassment or do you think Twitter would be in their favour?

I voted no for many reasons (from it being unneeded publicity, to not going to do anything as groups like fixthe are the real kids in this debate (as other people have proven)) but in the meantime, I don't think we should allow them to keep slandering us undisputed.

(But if debating them is a waste of time and not worth the energy, how can we stop them…?)

We can't. All throughout history, bigots have never been stopped. You never want to change the minds of bigots.

Metaphorically, us trying to debate Fixthe26 on twitter is like MLK trying to debate the KKK on twitter. It's fucking stupid. I'm not saying the social issues involved have NEARLY the same drastic qualities. I'm saying, the nature of fighting bigotry via text is ridiculous.
 
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_Kaira_

_Kaira_

This Isn't Fine
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Messages
824
Rn110bg101 said:
Is there a way to report fixthe26 for targeted harassment or do you think Twitter would be in their favour?

I voted no for many reasons (from it being unneeded publicity, to not going to do anything as groups like fixthe are the real kids in this debate (as other people have proven)) but in the meantime, I don't think we should allow them to keep slandering us undisputed.

(But if debating them is a waste of time and not worth the energy, how can we stop them…?)

I reported one person on there since they literally kept spamming me all day even when I told them it was pointless and we should both drop it.
Then proceeded to tell me that if I blocked them I'd be running away and hiding. Who knows if twitter will do anything, probably not.

Don't think there's much that can be done, since the majority of the world would have their back if they were more popular.
 
mahakaliSS_MahaDurga

mahakaliSS_MahaDurga

Visionary
Joined
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Messages
2,428
I think that deleting it would be wrong and they would take that as a victory. It would seem like we are afraid or that we have something to hide, so we're retreating.
ThisIsFine said:
I reported one person on there since they literally kept spamming me all day even when I told them it was pointless and we should both drop it.
Then proceeded to tell me that if I blocked them I'd be running away and hiding. Who knows if twitter will do anything, probably not.

Don't think there's much that can be done, since the majority of the world would have their back if they were more popular.
They will get a warning by email and that's it.
 
_Kaira_

_Kaira_

This Isn't Fine
Joined
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Messages
824
mahakali88 said:
I think that deleting it would be wrong and they would take that as a victory. It would seem like we are afraid or that we have something to hide, so we're retreating.

They will get a warning by email and that's it.

Go figure. Lol.
 
RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Global Mod
Joined
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Messages
1,411
DoNotLet2 said:
Sorry but @braketimez is right I kinda think that you guys underestimate the challenge. Those won't be nice conversations with undereducated people. And if you fail it will have consequences for the website and us. And it also depends on followers' number. The more the harder.

What kind of consequences are you talking about? They're going to try to take down the website regardless. It's not like deleting that account is gonna solve those relentless attacks. Sorry but I've been around for 2.5 years and they've been attacking us non-stop. It started back in 2019 with a Buzzfeed article and it never really stopped. They will keep trying to push political legislation until they actually succeed. Do I think they will succeed? No. But they will try to pull all tricks in the book to make the website as inaccessible as possible. Why shouldn't there be a counter-narrative?

braketimez said:
You are confident we have the moral high ground. But if society has a different and more conservative moral ground, won't we be seen as the "irrational enemy" on a social media platform and only feed the narratives other people have?

Polls on the right to die show that people generally agree with us. I already told you the exact same thing a few days ago with sources.

braketimez said:
Yes, we cannot control the narrative or fight back on bad faith accusations if we're defensive. Having a twitter account just to react to opposition and express our controversial viewpoints comes off as defensiveness to people of differing beliefs, doesn't it?

No. Let me try to explain my angle. If we don't have that Twitter account, they'll attack us, smear us, invent lies - just like they did the last few months. There will be no counter-narrative and nobody is gonna learn about our position and stance on this issue. But if we have a Twitter account, we can actually create visibility for our position. We can put our arguments out there and reach people. We will give them a chance to read and learn about the opposite views and this could make a difference. People that oppose the right to die are simply uneducated in my opinion. If you think through this process and if you listen to arguments of both sides, I'm confident that we can change some minds. I mean, take Nietzsche as an example. He is doing great work for the right to die movement. He is standing up for us and people agree with him. Go to any video about Nietzsche on Youtube and you'll realize that this is the case. You think Youtube is anecdotal - well then go take a look at polls and surveys about the right to die. The public opinion, as I said earlier, is on our side. There might be disagreements on nuances but people generally agree and understand the idea that people can make consenting and informed decisions about their own life and death. You are extremely pessimistic and trust me, I totally understand why you would take the black pill when it comes to the right to die and political discourse around it. But as I said in another topic, social reforms take time. The LGBT community didn't score wins overnight and participating in intercourses over the internet certainly contributed to the success. You can reach millions of individuals around the world on Twitter, why do you minimize the impact it has on real life issues?

braketimez said:
Every successful civil rights movement in the history of mankind involved banding together in a physical public setting to directly confront legislative harm being done to said community. Can we agree that expressing viewpoints on Twitter accomplishes neither of those? We are not banding together in person, and we are not directly trying to get the attention of legislators as other civil rights movements have done.

I disagree because Twitter is a huge social media platform that has a large audience. Many activists actually use this platform to share and express their ideas, why shouldn't we utilize these tools as well?

braketimez said:
How can you specify exactly what people are thinking and feeling when they vote "no"?

As I said, it was an assumption and giving them ground makes it look like they're in the right. If you have nothing to hide and if you think your intentions are pure, why wouldn't you fight back?

braketimez said:
I voted "no" because I accept the narrative that we need to reserve this safe space and keep members, especially the ones who are too lethargic to even contribute to these conversations, safe. Civil rights movements in the past didn't involve going around promoting where all their private safe spaces were, and essentially "doxing" the homes of their community gatherings. That wasn't the point of the movements.

I respect that and I understand your point. It's valid and I definitely take that seriously. But not all of the people wrote down an explanation in regards to their vote, that's why I made an assumption about some of the voters.

braketimez said:
Can you please tell me how the hell you you can assume exactly what people are thinking when they vote?

As I said, it was an assumption based on my experience with people from this community. There are many people that think the right to die movement doesn't have legitimacy due to the social stigma around suicide and I disagree. And we should stop running away and constantly let people run over us with bad faith accusations and outright lies.

braketimez said:
1) On twitter, people are not in an emotional state to have their minds changed. They are there to express their viewpoints in a few characters, which is not nearly sufficient enough to truly establish an argument. Sure, you can post articles, etc...but that's not where the hype on twitter comes from. People rarely take the time to read long articles. Just look at attention span studies nowadays. Controversy on twitter only stirs up dissension and reinforces everyone's beliefs. There's no evidence it actually is a productive way to advance a viewpoint and influence people to believe in something new. There are TONS of stories of ridiculous arguments and debates that take place on Twitter and lead to no positive outcome. Nothing but a stalemate. However, there are rarely any stories about the opposite taking place.

Can you please point me to a body of evidence that supports the productive value of having a twitter account?
There's already a ton of evidence people just have pointless and emotionally charged arguments that lead nowhere. So please show evidence of the opposite

The evidence are countless of activists and politicians that actually use Twitter as a platform to push their narrative. For example, Trump constantly tweeting about how he won the election actually made 40% of republicans think that he indeed did win the election, despite like a 8 million vote margin and the loss of the electoral college. This is one specific example - but I don't want to turn this exchange into a political discussion and I'll let the other part of your argument stand - it seems like we simply disagree on the fundamental questions of activism.
 
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DoNotLet2

DoNotLet2

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Messages
684
RainAndSadness said:
What kind of consequences are you talking about? They're going to try to take down the website regardless. It's not like deleting that account is gonna solve those relentless attacks. Sorry but I've been around for 2.5 years and they've been attacking us regardless. They will keep trying to push political legislation until they actually succeed. Do I think they will succeed? No. But they will try to pull all tricks in the book to make the website as in-accessible as possible. Why shouldn't there be a counter-narrative?
You didn't understand I think? I'm not saying "no" I'm saying "if".
But there are few of them and we are in own home. Twitter is their home. Of course it depends on the amount if you are going to have just a few thousand of followers that aren't from SS then it won't be very bad. But if it goes up to a million then the responsibility is going to be real. Everything you say will be analyzed so you have to make sure you aren't saying anything ambiguous. People will cut your posts out of context. You will have to be there to talk over all possible accusation. There may never happen a situation in which there is a drama about your twitter happening and you're not in a right mental state to solve it. Additionally psychiatrists and science isn't at our side. You will have to prove science is wrong about suicide. I don't want to make you think I don't believe in you. I just want to make sure you are prepared for everything.

And of course such twitter is needed! You don't know how much I would want someone to tell me that I'm not crazy apart from this website of course. There is so much gas lighting done to the suicidal people. They keep calling us insane. I'm annoyed. I don't want to depend on this single website because right now if I want to feel understood I count on you guys. But this site isn't everything there should be a place for me somewhere else too!
 
LunarPyotr

LunarPyotr

Похорони меня возле МКАДа
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
375
I'm gonna be honest with you.

Some people have Twitter but don't want to expose themselves that they are on this forum.
I don't mean that in a bad way.
No...
We know that most of the people have some troubles or had some and SS is kinda a controversial topic in this society where something like acceptance is a rare thing.

It's kinda like being a male and cross dress in the biggest airport city in Germany. I bet that people will say bad things about you and some will try to start a fight.
The same thing is on Twitter, where one thing could ruin your reputation : /

A know actually a guy who is transgender and after legally changing the gander on his ID and showing the part of his ID on Twitter where his gender was written, he received so much hate via DM, that he just deactivated his account.

I really think that keeping everything in one bubble ( Forum, Forum Chat, Discord) is kinda better than going out to some big social media platforms.
 
Heart Shards

Heart Shards

The shards of my broken heart cut deep.
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
536
mahakali88 said:
Yeah, this is what Jackie wrote: I do have sympathy for her as I've seen interviews with her where she looks broken, kind of like Callie's mom. Kelli, on the other hand comes off as a massive c-word, cold, calculated and on a mission. Who names their kid Junior ffs? Sure way to keep someone perpetually infantilized.
I was actually nice to her on twitter and she blocked me.
 
Brick In The Wall

Brick In The Wall

2M Or Not 2B.
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Messages
19,229
I think the biggest issue here isn't necessarily the twitter itself. But rather the division it's causing within this community. If we're unable to stand together then is it really worth fighting for anymore?
 
Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Paragon
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Messages
949
I choose other. Each side feels they are right. So both sides are fighting for what they believe in. Here's what I see- some kids on a playground throwing mud at eachother. Which one is going to be the most adult and say hey you can throw mud- but I'm not going to stand here all week throwing it back.

Keep the twitter if you want but forget about trying to persuade people to believe we are right. Both sides are right and both sides are wrong. It would have been a wonderful thing if Kelly could have worked with members/owners/mods here - 2 forces coming TOGETHER to let society know- Hey people who are teenagers and in their 20's want to die because they can't see a future. Society is going downhill fast. 2 forces coming together to help CHANGE mental health. There are a lot of people here who have been failed by the mental health profession. Suicide rates are soaring. The treatment of people who are depressed and feeling suicidal must change if people expect suicide rates to drop. Maybe if Kelly would have been more willing to work together maybe the forum would be willing to make certain content only available if someone can prove they are 18+. You never know.
 
ceasetobreathe

ceasetobreathe

Archangel
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Messages
6,239
I chose other because I'm yes and no.

I'm yes because it's a good way to shut down their individual tweets. If they say something, they can be corrected. It's good to be heard on a social platform because suicide is a taboo topic -- but it exists. People will think what they would like to about this place. With or without a Twitter account, anyone who's not aware of us may not come across our account, but there's still the chance of them coming across fixthe26's account from which they'll become aware of us. Some members get worried about seeing all of this going on (on this site) so keeping the account is also a good way to keep all of it off the forum so those members don't have to see it.

This is also a good way for you, Marquis, to be heard outside of the forum. I don't use Twitter but from your past responses around the forum you've been professional about all of this. As long as it doesn't turn into anything less than civil, why not keep the account.

I'm also no because they claim to be "determined" to shut us down anyway. Whatever we say won't matter to them. Whatever they say shouldn't matter to us. Especially when they don't know what they're talking about. I've heard and seen them say things that I don't even know what they're talking about.
 
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Ardesevent

Ardesevent

It’s the end of the line, cowboy
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
353
Brick In The Wall said:
I think the biggest issue here isn't necessarily the twitter itself. But rather the division it's causing within this community. If we're unable to stand together then is it really worth fighting for anymore?
Agreed. I’m pretty biased towards one side myself, but some people are getting pretty militant here to prove their points. I’ve seen political discussions calmer than this.
 
Lost in a Dream

Lost in a Dream

Warlock
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Feb 22, 2020
Messages
745
Brick In The Wall said:
I think the biggest issue here isn't necessarily the twitter itself. But rather the division it's causing within this community. If we're unable to stand together then is it really worth fighting for anymore?

It's concerning to me too. Those people that are trying to shut us down are getting us all worked up and they are probably patting themselves on the backs while they watch us argue with each other. I voted for no because defending our right to die is an uphill battle and the people at the top have bigger guns than us. It seems pointless, but that's probably because I don't have the energy to fight anyway.

Maybe voting for other would have been better though. There is definitely value in trying to change minds with logical arguments, whether it's on Twitter or elsewhere, but I'm not so sure that doing it under the name of "Sanctioned Suicide" is the best way. We might as well be marching an army to the enemy's border and saying, "Let's talk this out". while we are pointing weapons at each other.
 
omoidarui

omoidarui

Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Messages
847
puppy9 said:
She's batshit crazy like Qanon. No wonder *cough cough

She only started blocking our members out after getting such provocative messages as “such an excellent coach, she used her great skills to help usher her [daughter] to her resting place.” This was said to a grieving mother.

i’m uncomfortable to consider myself allied with people who spew the vitriol i’ve seen. some people on our side have no zen.

the only good spokesperson for our site’s ethos was the puppy tbh
 
Nymph

Nymph

he/him
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Messages
2,500
I hate Twitter and after arguing with pro lifers I can see that it’s completely useless and they don’t care about us at all. They just want to take SS down no Matter what because they think it will stop all suicides. I think it would be better to not have it and maybe just be like a pro choice, pro legalization of euthanasia account-but disconnect from SS.
 
Lost in a Dream

Lost in a Dream

Warlock
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
745
Sinkinshyp said:
It would have been a wonderful thing if Kelly could have worked with members/owners/mods here - 2 forces coming TOGETHER to let society know- Hey people who are teenagers and in their 20's want to die because they can't see a future. Society is going downhill fast. 2 forces coming together to help CHANGE mental health. There are a lot of people here who have been failed by the mental health profession. Suicide rates are soaring.

I wish we could do that instead. If we could work with them to fix the real problems that exist in our world, we could start finding real solutions that will help those of us that want to die. Unfortunately, all we have is this:

High_Noon.png
 
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