Mixolydian

Mixolydian

Warlock
Aug 2, 2020
704
Is it real? Is it not? Why do you believe or not believe? Have you ever experienced unconditional love and what was it like?

I personally believe all relationships are conditional in the end and the vast majority will end based on this conditionality because even though it's not nice to think about, this is a transactional world. It's depressing to think about but I'm glad I know this fact rather than dream about a situation that can never happen and would be unfair to expect. I'm open to criticism and all views on this, though. Maybe I'm just maladjusted in my beliefs.
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,251
No, I think you are just being lucid. Unconditional love is like free will: a concept that might be appealing but that all experience disproves. But this isn't all that dramatic, it just means normally you need to give something to receive something. In some instances people will help you without a reward from your part because they acquire a chemical reward in their nervous system by the act of kindness or obtain a good picture socially. But for relationships it is definitely transactional, although a certain camaraderie develops over time where some people will really care for you even if you start failing to provide your end of the bargain because you become disabled or what have you. This is the closest to unconditional love that I know of.
 
Ethereal Knight

Ethereal Knight

Looking for the eternal night 🌕
Jan 10, 2022
680
Is it real? Is it not? Why do you believe or not believe? Have you ever experienced unconditional love and what was it like?

I personally believe all relationships are conditional in the end and the vast majority will end based on this conditionality because even though it's not nice to think about, this is a transactional world. It's depressing to think about but I'm glad I know this fact rather than dream about a situation that can never happen and would be unfair to expect. I'm open to criticism and all views on this, though. Maybe I'm just maladjusted in my beliefs.
I agree with you. I think you can get unconditional love from gods, spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings etc if you believe in any of these, and also from yourself.

not from other humans, though. humans are animals, just like the other animals.

1658691966947
 
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virgilwalks

Member
Apr 7, 2022
66
There is indeed unconditional love. On so many levels but one could begin with simple bonds between people and their pets. The way my dog will sometimes choose to bury his muzzle next to my leg. To breathe me in. A very deep inhale and then exhale and then his eyes close for a snooze. A big big rush of dog breath on the exhale. Almost purring like a cat.

The way a human partner came into my life during the pandemic was unexpected and astonishing. I’m still learning how to accept we will be together until my last breath because he’s the one. The one for me. It’s complicated but not complicated. We wore masks that first time we met. In a public place on a weekend by choice meeting up outdoors. Me with my dog and honestly it was unconditional love at first sight between my dog and him and me and him all at once. With our eyes doing most of the communicating our faces covered with masks. Within a few weeks we were living together and figuring out how to survive a plague. We are still figuring it out. I didn’t think it could happen. Some days I just still can’t really put into words how it happened. But it is for sure unconditional. We are not perfect. We make mistakes. We come from different ages and places and my family is so fucked up and disconnected and his family is so loving and connected it’s hard for me.

but it’s real. That moment was real when we met. Instantaneous like a thunderbolt. then figuring out how to go forward. figuring it out every day. It’s not always easy. but at the end of the day knowing he’s right there next to me is very real and very unconditional. Neither one of us has to be here. We choose each other. I can’t quite believe it some days. But yes it’s real. Unconditional isn’t easy. It takes work. Every day. It’s scary, But it’s most definitely real.
 
Ethereal Knight

Ethereal Knight

Looking for the eternal night 🌕
Jan 10, 2022
680
Relationships are like garage sales: from a distance they look interesting, but once you get close, you see it's a just a bunch of sh*t you don't need.
 
Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
1,304
My understanding of this topic is that unconditional love is a natural product of having direct experience of not being separate from one another (nonduality). In the most advanced state, such a one will treat all beings equally because they do not see anyone else as 'other' at all. This is a completely different perspective that removes the assumption of subject versus object that afflicts most people most of the time. It will likely appear as lunacy to most people as it is completely contingent upon the aforementioned direct experience - a shame, as we are all capable of it (so I'm told).

In the normal modus operandi, the term unconditional love has a completely different meaning, implying that it doesn't matter what a particular other person does. For example, a parent who - unlike mine - would not abandon or reject their children because they fail to achieve a particular academic result.

In short, love has varying degrees of purity depending on what the ego is trying to get out of it, or in rare cases whether there is no ego at all.

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WhatPowerIs

WhatPowerIs

Experienced
Jun 19, 2022
233
There's always a condition. So no it doesn't exist. Would be nice if it did though, wouldn't it?
 
Suicidebydeath

Suicidebydeath

Falls in love
Nov 25, 2021
770
I know that it exists, but it doesn't mean that it's always good or healthy. Normal love "I love you but if you <do abominable thing> it's over." is good enough.
 
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WhatPowerIs

WhatPowerIs

Experienced
Jun 19, 2022
233
I know that it exists, but it doesn't mean that it's always good or healthy. Normal love "I love you but if you <do abominable thing> it's over." is good enough.
That seems expected. Some people are promised to be unconditionally loved by their parents but that love is revoked once they reveal they're LGBT to their parents for example. You can stop being loved for a lot less.
 
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Suicidebydeath

Suicidebydeath

Falls in love
Nov 25, 2021
770
I can't imagine not loving my kids if they were LGBT, trans, suicidal, or anything else. Alas, I don't have my own kids, so I don't know whether it would be unconditional.

Unconditional love is defined as 'loving someone whatever they do, and only wanting their happiness' so that accurately describes my love for at least some of my ex's, and my actions or inactions following that. It only seems like a good thing if you stay and are happy together, otherwise I suppose it's pretty meaningless. But at least that means I don't harbor any ill intent towards any of them.

I suppose it somewhat describes my feelings towards family, but that's definitely love-hate as well. Imagine screaming internally "fuck you all" to people that you 'love' as well. It sucks quite a fair bit.
 
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WhatPowerIs

WhatPowerIs

Experienced
Jun 19, 2022
233
I can't imagine not loving my kids if they were LGBT, trans, suicidal, or anything else. Alas, I don't have my own kids, so I don't know whether it would be unconditional.
I don't have any kids of my own either, too young and dysfunctional for that, but unconditional love SHOULD be something a parent should give to a kid. I mean, they brought them into this world, for crying out loud, the least they could do is love them unconditionally.
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

Dinosaur
Jun 17, 2018
1,716
Unconditional love doesn't make any sense

If I'm your husband and in the morning after we wake up
my body changes into a 4ft tall midget, do you still love me?
Let's say you do because you still like my personality,
but
What if that changes too, I change my mannerisms, my beliefs etc.
I become someone completely different compared to who I was the day before

The only person in this world that will ever love you just for existing and being sentient is you
no one else can know who you really are (A mind), and value you for that

All they will ever value you for is your actions (you made them laugh, or saved their life, or you both like the same video game), your status (family members love you because you are related to them)
and your appearance (someone wants to fuck you) and that's basically it.

You're basically selling yourself, your qualities to someone
to get something from them
that's what love is

it has to be a win win to work

I wrote you this comment because it felt rewarding to me,

that's human nature

nobody wants to be a sucker :pfff:
 
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timetosleep

Member
Feb 19, 2019
32
I used to, but not anymore. I find that it's very difficult to find love that can hold suffering. Most of the couples I know have a relationship based on desire and pleasure, making one another feel good physically and emotionally. That is great; however, I find that it's not enough. When one partner is suffering, instead of being supportive of one another, it usually causes conflict or breaks up a relationship. There are people who can love more than most, but they are very rare, I think.
 
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NumbItAll

NumbItAll

Mage
May 20, 2018
596
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NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

Dinosaur
Jun 17, 2018
1,716
Idk, there are serial killers whose parents still love them the same: https://www.ranker.com/list/parents-of-serial-killers-speak/rachel-souerbry

Plus think of all the toxic relationships where someone gets abused/mistreated and still loves their partner anyway. There's a really sweet poster here who this happened to a few months ago: https://sanctioned-suicide.org/threads/my-boyfriend-tried-to-kill-me.83223/

So I think unconditional love exists, but it's necessarily a good thing.
They're just obsessed with them because of the memories they have of them, a sense
of ownership (the serial killer was their son, not someone else's son)
and just brain chemistry in general

there's no such thing as an effect without a cause

Unconditional love is just bad use of language,
but I understand the idea behind the words
 
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markimobzzdeasui

markimobzzdeasui

Life is a cruel joke
Oct 24, 2021
1,090
I truly believe there is unconditional love in the world although not many people receive it, including myself.
Although there is always transactional side attached to everything in this world including love, it still is unconditional.
We all have unique brain,body,memories,inner strengths and demons,psychological identities and a plethora of other things that make up our being whether we know about it or not. And it is same for everyone and everybody. None of the above things that make us up could have existed without some other person being involved as well on a deep psychological and quantum level. Same goes for the other person as well . So love and hate always need to involve two or more active players. What is love for one person isn't for another one. The biggest problem I fear, is to truly understand yourself and then go on a journey to find yourself and eradicate those people,concepts, conditionings and old belief systems, that do not fit your understanding of love.
Much much easier said than done and damn near impossible for so many people because of the state of the current world.
 
Sabaibā

Sabaibā

🧐
Nov 30, 2020
132
It is real but really hard to find. Sometimes you have to work it out with someone else, specially family. Sometimes family believes they give it.
I have it, it's really nice but it's not as the movies make it out to be. Love can't solve everything.
I also agree that it's a transactional world.
Anyways take care OP, best wishes.
 
Suicidebydeath

Suicidebydeath

Falls in love
Nov 25, 2021
770
Plus think of all the toxic relationships where someone gets abused/mistreated and still loves their partner anyway.
I don't think that's uc love, I think that's something else entirely.
 
KQuotientW

KQuotientW

Blargh... I'm done. Just can't anymore.
Jul 17, 2022
123
I suppose it exists for some people. My former relationships were on the condition, according to them, that they could beat me, put me down constantly and fk other women behind my back. Some people have had the relationship where they are in love until they die of old age and natural causes. I'll never find that. In fact, one ex was very sick with chicken pox as an adult. He was so sick he could barely sit up to be* sick in a bucket so I held him up when he needed to be able to sit upright. I mopped his brow with a cold damp cloth when his fever was high. If that happened to me, he would have left me at home and gone out drinking with his mates, and probably fkd another woman in an alleyway. Another was a cop who was highly abusive, even ending up on a sex offender register after I'd ended the relationship. I don't know where the kind, loving ones are. They certainly aren't attracted to me.
 
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Grav

Grav

Specialist
Jul 26, 2020
340
Yes but for most humans it's very difficult. I don't believe that makes it an impossibility.
 
WhatPowerIs

WhatPowerIs

Experienced
Jun 19, 2022
233
dreambound

dreambound

Member
Dec 14, 2021
40
maybe the answer depends on whether you are a cynical or hopeful person. The phrase 'unconditional love' gets chucked around excessively
in self-help books & suchlike...I have not seen an example of unconditional love in person but that doesnt mean much.
People are what they are & unconditional love would require the absense of the ego, which seems more prevalent than ever in today's world.
.....Jiddu Krishnamurti had this to say regarding ego..."the demand for the cessation of the 'I' becomes the new activity of the 'I'
...I think plain old love is about the best we can hope for, & that ain't so bad......
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

Dinosaur
Jun 17, 2018
1,716
Unconditional love doesn't exist because every choice you make is motivated by reward chemicals in your brain,
whether you're aware of them or not
You're always winning, even when you think you're losing
To truly lose you would have to do something that you're not motivated to do, which is not possible
Willpower is motivation too

Jumping on a grenade is not unconditional love
Taking care of your sick mother is not unconditional love either
Loving your son after raping and murdering a bunch of people minding their business IS NOT unconditional love

So what would qualify as unconditional love?
Nothing. Nothing can possibly be unconditional because we live in a causal universe, and
we're all just animals motivated to seek comfort for our own sake at the end of the day.

Unconditional love would be self destructive.
You would be letting others leech off your qualities, your time and effort

Everyone wants something out of you, whether it's money, respect...

Sometimes all they want out of you is for you to shower, behave yourself, pay for what you consume, say hello
but even those are conditions, aren't they? lol
It ain't free love If I have to give you a cent

Society is a game of exchange/transactions
People that give you more than what you're giving them,
in their heads they still think they're winning somehow
maybe they think they're making an investment
They put up with the pain you're giving them to get something (out of you) in the future

You must somehow believe that you're winning, subconsciously, to be able to perform these acts of kindness,
because that's what motivation/movement is
It has to be about you somehow

When you give without getting something back,
you're still feeling good about yourself

It's just ego and biology.

I've had people in my family die, and it felt painful when it happened,
I cried a lot
But years after the event I honestly don't seem to care anymore that they are gone
I've moved forward with my life,
It's because when it first happened I was under the influence of stress, pain chemicals
that later wore off,
those chemicals were the cause of my pain, not the corpses
of my sister and grandmother

Love is about feelings, not people
People have instrumental value
Feelings have intrinsic value

You must have had a dream or something where you cried for someone that wasn't real,
or fell in love with them

If you did then congrats you've just figured out that life is fake, nothing but a movie of sensations

If I cut and change parts of your brain meticulously enough you will fall in love with a doll, feel like marrying her
and jump on a grenade to save her too.
 
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Jessycat2000

Jessycat2000

Member
Jul 26, 2022
16
for me only my mum’s love is unconditional
 
akana

akana

being normal is torture
Mar 21, 2022
116
agree wholeheartedly with @NoLifeNoPain , unconditional love is a concept
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

Dinosaur
Jun 17, 2018
1,716
agree wholeheartedly with @NoLifeNoPain , unconditional love is a concept
People like to romanticize reality with hyperbolic words
saying it the way it is doesn't sound as good

Unconditional love = Long term love,
virtuous love
 
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