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Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Paragon
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
949
I was replying to a post and was about to go off on a long posting there. So instead of doing that I have decided to make a new thread.

I've seen a few youtube documentaries on doc assisted/approved for many reasons. I started watching them after my respiratory failure in 2013. If I lived out a natural life there is good chance at a young age 50's I will be in this body struggling so hard to breathe. Having come back from respiratory failure and life support I didn't have the strength to bring the cup of ice chips to my lips. My arm was shaking like my 2nd step dad who had parkinsons. I was sooo thirsty though. Trying to breathe just turning over in bed was like trying to run a marathon for 1000 miles non stop. I don't want my daily life to be that experience 24/7. Should I live out a natural life due to my choice to abuse my lungs smoking since I was 13 has caused very advanced for age emphysema. I've had several scares that I was heading into respiratory failure again. I chain smoke and avoid my inhalers, nebulizer meds and steroids to try to push myself back into respiratory failure since my son died.. yeah slow suicide but in the end my family wont see it as true suicide. My lungs used to go into an exacerbation when I was stressed I have no idea why they haven't failed since my son died.

Than I saw some youtube vids on assisted for being depressed. My son was still alive and I watched one about an older woman 60's 70's cant say for sure probably 2014 or so. Her 1 daughter died and she had 1 living. She was in so much pain she wanted to join her daughter in her afterlife. I think it was a dignitas one if it wasn't it was Switzerland for sure though. She had been given approval for mental anguish and it being irreversible. She drank her cup, laid back in that bed, ate a chocolate and had this HUGE smile.. I remember watching it and thinking you still have a daughter how can you do that? I now relate so much with this woman. I have tried to find this video so my family mom bro sis in law can watch it and try to understand. I am unable to find it now. Recently a young girl in her 20's was approved due to her struggles and nothing has provided her any relief.

I believe in the future doc assisted for many reason will become options. It has come along way in the last 20 years. The process might be longer than some would want to wait out but not as long as what is in place currently. I think it shouldn't be walk into a clinic to not walk out. It can be abused for many reasons- organ harvesting, if someone is viewed as some sort of burden on society for example living on welfare or not having a substantial income, some sick individuals would get a legal thrill doing it serial killers hiding behind a law and doctor title, to get rid of someone whose views are different than yours and it goes on and on. It should be something thats a process and involve more than 1 doctor to get approved. Maybe a 3 doctor approval- 1 would need to be a psychiatrist. For CTB they should look at everything thats been tried and is not working has not worked. Prior therapists, psychiatrists, meds, hospitalizations etc the paper trail of tried and doesn't work for that person. That way it's proven there isn't a possible way to find value in life. Even if their past history is like me 30 yrs ago in and out of psych as a teenager now back to feeling that desire more than I did back than to go. Everything should be taken into account tried and did not work. Maybe they will need to see a therapist for 6 months before they are approved. If they have the availability to talk quite blank with a doc without fear of being locked up they can find some help and they might not CTB but it will also show this person has participated and it is not working and they will receive approval. If we had a guaranteed peaceful assisted exit I am sure many wont mind going through a 6 months process to get approved.

20 years ago Dr Kevorkian. Replying to that post I was trying to find when Kevorkian assisted people. I found an article from April 2020 in regards to Kevorkian and how now doc assisted is legal in many places due to his actions. I will be copying and pasting some parts of this article. Prior to Kevorkian I don't think any doctor made such an impact and helped change laws to assist people. Since Kevorkian assisted has become legal and an option for many. I do think in the future it will become more readily available. Here is some parts of the article I think we may find helpful. Is it something we may see in our time here- no probably not. Unless someone is like me and finds something to give a reason to continue- I did for my son and I do not regret it. Cancer at 18 also showed me also maybe I wasn't really ready to go as well.

" Now, a mere 20 years later, lethal-injection euthanasia is legal and popular in Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands. Doctor-assisted suicide is legal in Germany, Switzerland, the Australian states of Victoria and Western Australia, and nine U.S. states and the District of Columbia. Pressure to legalize euthanasia is increasing in Australia, France, India, Italy, New Zealand, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom"

" Kevorkian believed that access to assisted suicide and euthanasia is a fundamental human right that should be available to any competent person wanting to die. Canada’s Supreme Court has partially agreed. In 2015 it established a right to “medical assistance in dying (MAID),” as it is euphemistically called, for all competent patients with a medically diagnosed condition that causes “irremediable suffering,” including “psychological pain.” An Ontario court has ruled that this right to be killed is fundamental and that it trumps Canada’s Charter right of “freedom of religion and conscience.” Under the province’s rules of medical ethics, physicians who by religion or conscience are opposed to lethally injecting a sick patient must do so anyway or refer the patient to a doctor they know is willing to. If they don’t want to be complicit in such deaths, the court sniffed, they should get out of medicine. "

"The Federal Constitutional Court in Germany recently ruled that such death on demand is a right. From the decision (my emphasis):
The right to a self-determined death is not limited to situations defined by external causes like serious or incurable illnesses, nor does it apply only in certain stages of life or illness. Rather, this right is guaranteed in all stages of a person’s existence. . . . The individual’s decision to end their own life, based on how they personally define quality of life and a meaningful existence, eludes any evaluation on the basis of general values, religious dogmas, societal norms for dealing with life and death, or consideration of objective rationality.
Kevorkian, too, thought that individuals should have a right to assisted suicide and that the decision should not belong only to medical professionals who would assist in the act. True to his vision, the German court has ruled that not only do citizens have a fundamental right to commit suicide or to be assisted in their suicide but that others have a concomitant right to assist."

Now I will say I don't agree with all of Kevorkians reasoning. He was about selling organs and horrible testing on people prior to their death as a way to learn about certain process during the final moments. I can say Kevorkian opened that door to doc assisted/approved and it has come along way since 1998. It still has a long way to go but laws are changing really fast about doc assisted. Society needs to learn just because someone does not have end stage cancer doesn't mean their life isn't equally painful and the only relief is to cease to exist. Society needs to learn mental anguish a lot of times cannot be cured or fixed. There are some things a pill cannot fix. It is a very painful existence sometimes more so because people cannot understand just how sick ( I hate to say it that way but for lack of way to compare to cancer or other deadly disease) we truly are. I think sometimes it's worse because people don't know how to relate, show compassion and be there for us in the same manner they would if we had end stage disease.

opinions? thoughts? I don't know about the laws of other countries so I do not know how accurate this article truly is. It was from April 2020 so it is a recent article. It was just to show Kevorkian opened a door and it's been a growing process thats steadily gaining speed.
 
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peacefuldeath14

peacefuldeath14

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
20
Yep, wish my mind-body anatomy could somehow prove something is wrong, and hopefully be treated.
Also ya, lawmakers, at least the wise ones, seem to be moving in the direction of freedom of choice, compassionate assistance.
 
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fat feet

Throw away.
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
190
Sinkinshyp said:
I was replying to a post and was about to go off on a long posting there. So instead of doing that I have decided to make a new thread.

I've seen a few youtube documentaries on doc assisted/approved for many reasons. I started watching them after my respiratory failure in 2013. If I lived out a natural life there is good chance at a young age 50's I will be in this body struggling so hard to breathe. Having come back from respiratory failure and life support I didn't have the strength to bring the cup of ice chips to my lips. My arm was shaking like my 2nd step dad who had parkinsons. I was sooo thirsty though. Trying to breathe just turning over in bed was like trying to run a marathon for 1000 miles non stop. I don't want my daily life to be that experience 24/7. Should I live out a natural life due to my choice to abuse my lungs smoking since I was 13 has caused very advanced for age emphysema. I've had several scares that I was heading into respiratory failure again. I chain smoke and avoid my inhalers, nebulizer meds and steroids to try to push myself back into respiratory failure since my son died.. yeah slow suicide but in the end my family wont see it as true suicide. My lungs used to go into an exacerbation when I was stressed I have no idea why they haven't failed since my son died.

Than I saw some youtube vids on assisted for being depressed. My son was still alive and I watched one about an older woman 60's 70's cant say for sure probably 2014 or so. Her 1 daughter died and she had 1 living. She was in so much pain she wanted to join her daughter in her afterlife. I think it was a dignitas one if it wasn't it was Switzerland for sure though. She had been given approval for mental anguish and it being irreversible. She drank her cup, laid back in that bed, ate a chocolate and had this HUGE smile.. I remember watching it and thinking you still have a daughter how can you do that? I now relate so much with this woman. I have tried to find this video so my family mom bro sis in law can watch it and try to understand. I am unable to find it now. Recently a young girl in her 20's was approved due to her struggles and nothing has provided her any relief.

I believe in the future doc assisted for many reason will become options. It has come along way in the last 20 years. The process might be longer than some would want to wait out but not as long as what is in place currently. I think it shouldn't be walk into a clinic to not walk out. It can be abused for many reasons- organ harvesting, if someone is viewed as some sort of burden on society for example living on welfare or not having a substantial income, some sick individuals would get a legal thrill doing it serial killers hiding behind a law and doctor title, to get rid of someone whose views are different than yours and it goes on and on. It should be something thats a process and involve more than 1 doctor to get approved. Maybe a 3 doctor approval- 1 would need to be a psychiatrist. For CTB they should look at everything thats been tried and is not working has not worked. Prior therapists, psychiatrists, meds, hospitalizations etc the paper trail of tried and doesn't work for that person. That way it's proven there isn't a possible way to find value in life. Even if their past history is like me 30 yrs ago in and out of psych as a teenager now back to feeling that desire more than I did back than to go. Everything should be taken into account tried and did not work. Maybe they will need to see a therapist for 6 months before they are approved. If they have the availability to talk quite blank with a doc without fear of being locked up they can find some help and they might not CTB but it will also show this person has participated and it is not working and they will receive approval. If we had a guaranteed peaceful assisted exit I am sure many wont mind going through a 6 months process to get approved.

20 years ago Dr Kevorkian. Replying to that post I was trying to find when Kevorkian assisted people. I found an article from April 2020 in regards to Kevorkian and how now doc assisted is legal in many places due to his actions. I will be copying and pasting some parts of this article. Prior to Kevorkian I don't think any doctor made such an impact and helped change laws to assist people. Since Kevorkian assisted has become legal and an option for many. I do think in the future it will become more readily available. Here is some parts of the article I think we may find helpful. Is it something we may see in our time here- no probably not. Unless someone is like me and finds something to give a reason to continue- I did for my son and I do not regret it. Cancer at 18 also showed me also maybe I wasn't really ready to go as well.

" Now, a mere 20 years later, lethal-injection euthanasia is legal and popular in Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands. Doctor-assisted suicide is legal in Germany, Switzerland, the Australian states of Victoria and Western Australia, and nine U.S. states and the District of Columbia. Pressure to legalize euthanasia is increasing in Australia, France, India, Italy, New Zealand, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom"

" Kevorkian believed that access to assisted suicide and euthanasia is a fundamental human right that should be available to any competent person wanting to die. Canada’s Supreme Court has partially agreed. In 2015 it established a right to “medical assistance in dying (MAID),” as it is euphemistically called, for all competent patients with a medically diagnosed condition that causes “irremediable suffering,” including “psychological pain.” An Ontario court has ruled that this right to be killed is fundamental and that it trumps Canada’s Charter right of “freedom of religion and conscience.” Under the province’s rules of medical ethics, physicians who by religion or conscience are opposed to lethally injecting a sick patient must do so anyway or refer the patient to a doctor they know is willing to. If they don’t want to be complicit in such deaths, the court sniffed, they should get out of medicine. "

"The Federal Constitutional Court in Germany recently ruled that such death on demand is a right. From the decision (my emphasis):

Kevorkian, too, thought that individuals should have a right to assisted suicide and that the decision should not belong only to medical professionals who would assist in the act. True to his vision, the German court has ruled that not only do citizens have a fundamental right to commit suicide or to be assisted in their suicide but that others have a concomitant right to assist."

Now I will say I don't agree with all of Kevorkians reasoning. He was about selling organs and horrible testing on people prior to their death as a way to learn about certain process during the final moments. I can say Kevorkian opened that door to doc assisted/approved and it has come along way since 1998. It still has a long way to go but laws are changing really fast about doc assisted. Society needs to learn just because someone does not have end stage cancer doesn't mean their life isn't equally painful and the only relief is to cease to exist. Society needs to learn mental anguish a lot of times cannot be cured or fixed. There are some things a pill cannot fix. It is a very painful existence sometimes more so because people cannot understand just how sick ( I hate to say it that way but for lack of way to compare to cancer or other deadly disease) we truly are. I think sometimes it's worse because people don't know how to relate, show compassion and be there for us in the same manner they would if we had end stage disease.

opinions? thoughts? I don't know about the laws of other countries so I do not know how accurate this article truly is. It was from April 2020 so it is a recent article. It was just to show Kevorkian opened a door and it's been a growing process thats steadily gaining speed.

My understanding is in Canada, that it is not as easy as it sounds here. I know of a fellow that has brain damage, with severe depression wanting to access it and is not able through MAID. Canada makes it seem like we are very progressive, if the government is not receiving votes or money for it, it is usually a dog and pony show.
 
S

Snowdrifts1212

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
34
fat feet said:
My understanding is in Canada, that it is not as easy as it sounds here. I know of a fellow that has brain damage, with severe depression wanting to access it and is not able through MAID. Canada makes it seem like we are very progressive, if the government is not receiving votes or money for it, it is usually a dog and pony show.

I'm in Canada and know a number of families that have gone through MAID with their loved ones. In my area, the process itself is extremely well-received by those who do qualify for it -- the medical team around it is great and there's a ton of support for the individual choosing MAID and their whole family. It's just that there are quite a lot of restrictions and safeguards around who is able to access it. It really is limited to terminal disease, such as organ failure without other treatment options. Psychological conditions and physical conditions or disabilities which are considered stable, such as brain damage, are not generally eligible for MAID.
 
F

fat feet

Throw away.
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
190
Snowdrifts1212 said:
I'm in Canada and know a number of families that have gone through MAID with their loved ones. In my area, the process itself is extremely well-received by those who do qualify for it -- the medical team around it is great and there's a ton of support for the individual choosing MAID and their whole family. It's just that there are quite a lot of restrictions and safeguards around who is able to access it. It really is limited to terminal disease, such as organ failure without other treatment options. Psychological conditions and physical conditions or disabilities which are considered stable, such as brain damage, are not generally eligible for MAID.
he Canadian euthanasia/assisted suicide (euphemistically known as Medical Aid in Dying (MAiD) data has been missing. I have received multiple inquiries asking how many Canadians have died by MAiD, now we have some data, but not from the government.
I am not saying that it is not being done. The criteria is not for a lot of people that are on this site is what I am referring to.
On March 15, 2019; Jocelyn Downie, Canada’s leading “academic” pro-euthanasia activist spoke at a lunch lecture for the Royal Society of Canada in Ottawa. In her presentation Downie stated that 7949 people have reportedly died by MAiD in Canada as of December 31, 2018. Downie clearly has access to euthanasia data that is otherwise unavailable.




Since the Third Interim report on MAiD indicated that there were 3714 reported assisted deaths up until December 31, 2017, Downie’s data indicates that there were 4235 assisted deaths in 2018, up from 2704 reported assisted deaths in 2017.

Based on Downie’s data, in 2018, the number of reported assisted deaths increased by more than 50% and assisted deaths represented more than 1.5% of all deaths.

I refer to reported assisted deaths because there have been 142 unaccounted assisted deaths in Québec and approximately 23% of the Netherlands assisted deaths are not reported.

Last December Québec published euthanasia data indicating that 1664 people died by MAiD from December 2015 to March 31, 2018. The data also indicated that there were 171 missing reports and 142 assisted deaths that were unaccounted.
What else did Downie say?

Downie stated that 99% of the assisted deaths are euthanasia, 1% assisted suicide, 95% are done by physicians, 42% occur at home and 41% occur in a hospital.

Downie stated that no ineligible persons died by MAiD. I guess that Downie didn’t read the Québec Interim report which stated that:
  • 3% (19 cases) did not comply with the eligibility criteria and safeguards, including:
  • 5 cases – Person did not have a “serious and incurable illness”;
  • 2 cases – The person was not at the end of life.
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For more information read: Third report from Québec’s euthanasia commission – 142 unaccounted deaths.

According to the Downie data there were 4235 reported assisted deaths in 2018, 2704 assisted deaths in 2017 and 1010 reported assisted deaths (Dec 2015 – Dec 31, 2016). Similar to the Netherlands and Belgium, nearly all of the assisted deaths are euthanasia (done by lethal injection) rather than assisted suicide.
 
Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Paragon
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
949
Assisted is steadily gaining speed. Thank you for sharing data and experiences with it. I think the more common it becomes the faster it will become available. We need to find a way to get depression/ assisted suicide to become a more available choice. I think it will become available in the future and it will be available a lot faster than we think
 

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