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thetwilightzone

thetwilightzone

-
Jul 14, 2018
307
Morally and legally speaking? I've heard that it doesn't pay off ....up to a point. If you're too dishonest then obviously you get into serious legal issues.

From what I've heard, most people I know have cheated in their university examinations, sold drugs/sex to finance their lifestyle etcc...I don't judge them but I wonder why when I do something small, I'm vilified by parents.
 
satou

satou

not yet
Sep 3, 2018
225
Morally and legally speaking? I've heard that it doesn't pay off ....up to a point. If you're too dishonest then obviously you get into serious legal issues.

From what I've heard, most people I know have cheated in their university examinations, sold drugs/sex to finance their lifestyle etcc...I don't judge them but I wonder why when I do something small, I'm vilified by parents.
What does selling your body have to do with honesty?

As far as your question is concerned, I think it's possible to live an honest life, and that it's usually a sign of weakness when people do otherwise. Being capable of living like that should be its own reward.

Although it depends on your environment and type of situations you find yourself in. For example in a corrupt society it will be more difficult.
 
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thetwilightzone

thetwilightzone

-
Jul 14, 2018
307
What does selling your body have to do with honesty?

As far as your question is concerned, I think it's possible to live an honest life, and that it's usually a sign of weakness when people do otherwise. Being capable of living like that should be its own reward.

Although it depends on your environment and type of situations you find yourself in. For example in a corrupt society it will be more difficult.

I guess honest by things that are considered legal/moral by society.

What do you mean weakness? Is being weak bad if a person is okay with it?
 
satou

satou

not yet
Sep 3, 2018
225
I guess honest by things that are considered legal/moral by society.

What do you mean weakness? Is being weak bad if a person is okay with it?
Take your cheating at university example. In my experience those with the best grades didn't cheat. They put in hard work and could be proud of that, and they retained knowledge afterwards so were in a better position later on.
Those that cheated (usually plagiarism) did so because they lacked confidence in their own abilities or didn't have enough time. They also had to be concerned about not passing and other negative consequences. Cheating was only easier in terms of time spend, but also stressed people and it didn't have any long term benefit.
 
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Escargot Shorts

Escargot Shorts

Tears-of-a-Clown Ass Bitch
Sep 26, 2018
184
There's a lot to unpack here.

I mean first, morality and legality are gonna be two very different things. So that's gonna have to be distinguished there. And then the notion of something paying off, like, i agree with the notion that living and behaving in ways that are sincere and genuine have their own sorts of benefits that just feel better for the--i'll call it--"soul." Whether that will award you dignity, love, or material gains however is not to be determined; to receive that as a result of living honestly is probably the kind of thing that makes it all the more important because it can be so rare.

so it does hurt otherwise when we try to be seen as our perceived real selves only to have that shunned or distorted by someone else's perspective, which is what it looks like you're referring to, twilightzone. there's a lot of context i don't have that you don't have to give me, but it does sound there's a clash of perspectives of what you know, do and believe; of what others do; and what the people vilifying you know and believe.

and then i also just gotta take point at the idea of not living honestly as 'usually a sign of weakness.' idk like that one also does largely operate on context and circumstance; behavior like that can certainly cause its own set of problems but i often side eye a lot of strong/weak binaries.
 
satou

satou

not yet
Sep 3, 2018
225
and then i also just gotta take point at the idea of not living honestly as 'usually a sign of weakness.' idk like that one also does largely operate on context and circumstance
Let me be clear that weak was not intended as a value judgement or even an overall description of a person. To use that study example again, some of the weaker students were that only because they had little financial support and had to spend their time and energy working at part time jobs, rather than studying.
 
FullFat

FullFat

^best order at Micky-D's ever
Apr 27, 2018
375
No, not in my experience. Even every-day, mundane areas of life bear this out. For instance, social interaction is all about anticipating people's needs and aligning your behavior with what they want (or appearing to do so anyway). That certainly doesn't sound nefarious on the face of it, but it often is in practice. You cannot please everyone. Someone who appears to do that and is popular with everyone is selling a different version of themselves to everyone they see. It could be harmless. They could just be a people-pleaser, but how would you know? They're so good at faking approval, support, and authenticity that you could be easily fooled. And ask that person, regardless of their motives, to stand with you against everyone else? That's a a fool's errand. They habitually seek out the approval of everyone. What is your worth against that of the many? Probably not much. Loyalty requires preference for some people over others, and such a person who pleases everyone makes an art out of obfuscating their preferences. Drawing a line in the sand and being honest is much harder on you because it by definition is divisive. In terms of skill, honesty is so much easier than deception, but in terms of cost to you, it will always be greater.
 
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F

Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,353
I think it does if you are honest with people who are honest with you. You can test people to figure this stuff out pretty quick. In a free market without government violence enforced on the citizens I think it would pay off to be honest because then we are all constrained in our ability to do harm to others. Under government the worst people tend to thrive and this doesn’t just mean at the top levels of government. The worst people in society tend to do significant damage when there is no social ostracism and nobody is held accountable for damages caused to other people.
 
weedoge

weedoge

Banned
Jul 12, 2018
1,528
Morally and legally speaking? I've heard that it doesn't pay off ....up to a point. If you're too dishonest then obviously you get into serious legal issues.

From what I've heard, most people I know have cheated in their university examinations, sold drugs/sex to finance their lifestyle etcc...I don't judge them but I wonder why when I do something small, I'm vilified by parents.
What do you mean by morally? I don't hold honesty as much of an important trait. People adapt and are as honest as a situation desires, its not bad to lie sometimes.

Its true that intelligent liars can get away with a lot and have it pay off a lot but... In a more general sense I'd say it depends on what an individual values. If a person values "good morals" and achieves satisfaction from following those then materially lying may pay off but mentally it could not be worth it for that individual. I think this is why many people live a shitty complacent life even when they know being dishonest could land them in a little better place.
 
Angst Filled Fuck Up

Angst Filled Fuck Up

Super duper enlightened
Sep 9, 2018
1,699
No. This life is only about kissing ass, faking it, and knowing the right people. I'm the bottom of the barrel because I'm authentic, have no connections, and wear my garbage life on my sleeve. If there is some virtue to being honest, it's something we'll likely only find out in the afterlife.
 
S

Shewaitsforme

Arcanist
Sep 23, 2018
499
Recently in my life no not at all but especially now as i told my home team i still want to die, landed me right back in hospital
 
not-2-b-the-answer

not-2-b-the-answer

Illuminated
Mar 23, 2018
3,096
Morally and legally speaking? I've heard that it doesn't pay off ....up to a point. If you're too dishonest then obviously you get into serious legal issues.

From what I've heard, most people I know have cheated in their university examinations, sold drugs/sex to finance their lifestyle etcc...I don't judge them but I wonder why when I do something small, I'm vilified by parents.

Everyone Lies … about something No One tells the truth all the time.
 
J

Jon

Student
Oct 1, 2018
109
The best thing about honesty is that it’s a virtue, if one is honest it leads onto other virtues like compassion, kindness, empathy. These virtues are contagious, in that if another person sees these characteristics in you he’ll be impressed and in turn try to imitate them. Conversely, if you cheat in an exam and you pass and he fails, he won’t just feel resentful, but he’ll more likely cheat in the next exam as well. And also being honest, along with other positive characteristics, will make you feel inside a better person, and reduce the risk of the worst feeling one can feel, that of regret or remorse. That being said, an occasional white lie with good reasoning won’t make you a bad person, just don’t make it into a habit.
 
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