johnny

johnny

Experienced
Dec 5, 2018
255
For handguns, is a .357 or .45 pretty good? Shotguns seem too big, you have to use your toe or something?


For handguns do you think a shorter barrel is better or a slightly longer one? For the purpose of having direct aim towards the brain stem.


The only gun I've ever shot is a revolver at a range, and there was a lot of recoil. If the gun is in your mouth aimed at a 45 degree angle towards the brainstem, (is this the best place to aim?) will the recoil effect the aim/trajectory at all? Or will the bullet have already left the barrel by then?


Would you take the gun in your right hand and "wrap around" so it's facing you? As opposed to the Bud Dwyer technique where he had the gun upside down.


What do you think is the best location to do it? I wouldn't want to do it at home or in a hotel because I wouldn't want to damage the room. Same goes for inside a car. I was thinking about going off a hiking trail a bit but the only concern there is that my body possibly wouldn't be found for weeks or even months, I wouldn't want family to go through that kind of agony waiting to know what happened. Also I wouldn't want park rangers to waste a bunch of time and resources trying to find me. I saw a recent case of an experienced hiker who died just half a mile off the trail, and he wasn't found for several months even with extensive searches in the park he died in.
 
Retched

Retched

I see the chaos in your eyes.
Oct 8, 2018
837
I have been having these questions too, some have been answered but I don't know enough to share information. I don't have a license to buy a gun...will be filling one out though. I'm collecting methods at this point.
 
G

GeorgeEastman

Arcanist
Sep 3, 2018
462
I'd want the largest caliber I could get with the longest barrel. Budd Dwyer, but would aim down a little more. And it would be done either at the cemetery or right here in this damn apartment. I hate these people here and would love to cause them lots of inconvenience.

The idea of them seeing a bloody corpse dripping all over the carpet is very appealing to me. And them having to clean this place up. I hope brains and blood get showered all over the place. Hope they won't be able to rent it out maybe ever.

Anyone who moves in here will be freaked out by tales the neighbors will tell of a crazy man who yelled all the time and blew his brains out. Good luck trying to sleep at night knowing that happened in here. Bwhahahahhaa!!!!
 
johnny

johnny

Experienced
Dec 5, 2018
255
I have been having these questions too, some have been answered but I don't know enough to share information. I don't have a license to buy a gun...will be filling one out though. I'm collecting methods at this point.
The 2nd amendment is pretty much the only positive thing I enjoy about being American lol.

I'd want the largest caliber I could get with the longest barrel. Budd Dwyer, but would aim down a little more. And it would be done either at the cemetery or right here in this damn apartment. I hate these people here and would love to cause them lots of inconvenience.

The idea of them seeing a bloody corpse dripping all over the carpet is very appealing to me. And them having to clean this place up. I hope brains and blood get showered all over the place. Hope they won't be able to rent it out maybe ever.

Anyone who moves in here will be freaked out by tales the neighbors will tell of a crazy man who yelled all the time and blew his brains out. Good luck trying to sleep at night knowing that happened in here. Bwhahahahhaa!!!!
I can definitely see how that would be fulfilling if you hated the landlords. One final "fuck you" to them that they can never get back at you for.

I fantasize about dying in a certain place, whether it's a hotel room or a hiking trail, and then being a ghost and being able to haunt it, lol. Someone is trying to fall asleep or is enjoying a nice view and I just get right up in their ear, "boo" to freak them out.
 
T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,822
Either a .357 or a .45 is plenty big enough. A long gun (shotgun) could be, as you surmise, very awkward. With that thought, I would choose the shortest barrel available for just the reason you suggest: it will be easier to aim correctly.

In this instance, length of barrel is largely irrellevant to the power of the gun; the amount of force generated by a snub-nose .357 is perfectly adequate. Further, the people who say, "you must have a shotgun with buckshot!" are not thinking about it very hard: in the distance between the muzzle and your brain (zero) there would effectively be no shot dispersal. It would very likely be the wad that kills you, not the shot.

Budd Dwyer probably did not chose his long-barrel pistol for ctb; he chose it as a defensive weapon, where barrel length can make a difference for longer range accuracy. He just ended up using the same gun to ctb.

I would use hollowpoint ammunition: it delivers the maximum destructive force in the minimum penetration.

No, recoil will not be a factor. As you have observed, by the time the recoil effects your hand, the bullet will already have destroyed your brain. What is much more of an issue is both how much the effort of pulling the trigger will effect your aim point --double-action revolvers have a very heavy trigger pull, and the effort of pulling the trigger can move the barrel off your point of aim-- and what's called "flinch": anticipation of the noise/recoil can cause you to move the gun as you anticipate the shot.

If you intend to buy a gun for the occasion, I would strongly suggest 1) a revolver, as it will be both mechanically simpler and more reliable and will draw less attention when you're purchasing it, 2) a snub-nose model, for ease of handling, 3) a model with an exposed hammer, that will allow you to cock it ahead of time. Operating the gun as a single-action (trigger pull only drops the hammer) makes for a much lighter trigger pull than operating it as a double-action (trigger pull first lifts the hammer, forcing it against the mainspring, and then drops it), and will thus make it easier to keep the gun on target. And a .38 will do the job, especially with a hollowpoint. It will probably be cheaper than a .357, too, if cost is a factor. If you're worried about its power being lower than a .357, buy what is called +P ("plus-P") ammo, which is .38, but with power between a .38 and a .357.

A friend of mine ctb just fine with a .38. Or he would have, had he aimed properly. He screwed up, pointed the gun at his temple, and blew out his frontal lobe and popped his eyes out. Despite that, he still died a week later when his family turned off life support. Don't point the gun at your temple or up under your chin. That's Hollywood fiction.

Also contrary to Hollywood representations, if you're using a pistol I would recommend against placing the muzzle in your mouth. It can be difficult to judge the angle correctly, and you could aim too high and blow out your frontal lobe, missing the brainstem and leaving yourself a vegetable. If I eventually choose to ctb with a gun, I intend to place the muzzle against the side of my head, directly behind my ear, aiming the gun level and directly side-to-side. From the diagrams I have seen (look up the Wiki article on <Brainstem>), this will result in a shot directly into my brainstem. It seems to have been a reliable aim-point for those who have successfully preceeded me, too.

As for a good location to ctb, that's entirely up to you. Both those calibers are large enough that you could well get "shoot through" and damage whatever is beyond your head on the bullet's exit trajectory. For me, I'll probably sit in my shower, oriented so that any shoot-through/splatter will end up on the shower wall, where the mess can be cleaned up with relative ease. Unlike GeorgeEastman, I have no interest in traumatizing those who must attend to the mess I leave behind.

For whatever it's worth, I will be using my .32 caliber semiautomatic pistol with Federal "Hydra-shok" jacketted hollowpoint ammunition, aimed as I have discussed above. Note! : .32 is the absolute minimum caliber I would risk using, and I hesitate to recommend it to anyone who does not have considerable firearms experience. I would be using my .45, but that is much more than the job needs and will make more mess than I am comfortable with. If you aren't familliar with firearms, a .38 is the smallest you can be confident in.
 
johnny

johnny

Experienced
Dec 5, 2018
255
Either a .357 or a .45 is plenty big enough. A long gun (shotgun) could be, as you surmise, very awkward. With that thought, I would choose the shortest barrel available for just the reason you suggest: it will be easier to aim correctly.

In this instance, length of barrel is largely irrellevant to the power of the gun; the amount of force generated by a snub-nose .357 is perfectly adequate. Further, the people who say, "you must have a shotgun with buckshot!" are not thinking about it very hard: in the distance between the muzzle and your brain (zero) there would effectively be no shot dispersal. It would very likely be the wad that kills you, not the shot.

Budd Dwyer probably did not chose his long-barrel pistol for ctb; he chose it as a defensive weapon, where barrel length can make a difference for longer range accuracy. He just ended up using the same gun to ctb.

I would use hollowpoint ammunition: it delivers the maximum destructive force in the minimum penetration.

No, recoil will not be a factor. As you have observed, by the time the recoil effects your hand, the bullet will already have destroyed your brain. What is much more of an issue is both how much the effort of pulling the trigger will effect your aim point --double-action revolvers have a very heavy trigger pull, and the effort of pulling the trigger can move the barrel off your point of aim-- and what's called "flinch": anticipation of the noise/recoil can cause you to move the gun as you anticipate the shot.

If you intend to buy a gun for the occasion, I would strongly suggest 1) a revolver, as it will be both mechanically simpler and more reliable and will draw less attention when you're purchasing it, 2) a snub-nose model, for ease of handling, 3) a model with an exposed hammer, that will allow you to cock it ahead of time. Operating the gun as a single-action (trigger pull only drops the hammer) makes for a much lighter trigger pull than operating it as a double-action (trigger pull first lifts the hammer, forcing it against the mainspring, and then drops it), and will thus make it easier to keep the gun on target. And a .38 will do the job, especially with a hollowpoint. It will probably be cheaper than a .357, too, if cost is a factor. If you're worried about its power being lower than a .357, buy what is called +P ("plus-P") ammo, which is .38, but with power between a .38 and a .357.

A friend of mine ctb just fine with a .38. Or he would have, had he aimed properly. He screwed up, pointed the gun at his temple, and blew out his frontal lobe and popped his eyes out. Despite that, he still died a week later when his family turned off life support. Don't point the gun at your temple or up under your chin. That's Hollywood fiction.

Also contrary to Hollywood representations, if you're using a pistol I would recommend against placing the muzzle in your mouth. It can be difficult to judge the angle correctly, and you could aim too high and blow out your frontal lobe, missing the brainstem and leaving yourself a vegetable. If I eventually choose to ctb with a gun, I intend to place the muzzle against the side of my head, directly behind my ear, aiming the gun level and directly side-to-side. From the diagrams I have seen (look up the Wiki article on <Brainstem>), this will result in a shot directly into my brainstem. It seems to have been a reliable aim-point for those who have successfully preceeded me, too.

As for a good location to ctb, that's entirely up to you. Both those calibers are large enough that you could well get "shoot through" and damage whatever is beyond your head on the bullet's exit trajectory. For me, I'll probably sit in my shower, oriented so that any shoot-through/splatter will end up on the shower wall, where the mess can be cleaned up with relative ease. Unlike GeorgeEastman, I have no interest in traumatizing those who must attend to the mess I leave behind.

For whatever it's worth, I will be using my .32 caliber semiautomatic pistol with Federal "Hydra-shok" jacketted hollowpoint ammunition, aimed as I have discussed above. Note! : .32 is the absolute minimum caliber I would risk using, and I hesitate to recommend it to anyone who does not have considerable firearms experience. I would be using my .45, but that is much more than the job needs and will make more mess than I am comfortable with. If you aren't familliar with firearms, a .38 is the smallest you can be confident in.
So you think the side of the head is the better option than the mouth at an upward angle? I always thought the side of the head had a lot more room for error because a flinch could go bad, whereas a flinch in the mouth can only move so far since it's still inside the mouth. And for an inside the mouth shot to only hit the frontal lobe, that would have to be practically straight up, wouldn't it? Bud Dwyer's shot seemed like it was too vertical and went out the top of his head, but it was still an instant death.
 
T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,822
There are a lot of different areas on the "side of the head". A shot into the temple might work, might not. Very sketchy. A shot behind the ear has seemed quite reliable, by my (informal) research.

Clearly a shot in the mouth can also work. You just need to aim correctly. Have a look at that illustration on Wiki, and practice aiming in the mirror until you're confident you can make the shot.

It's up to you.
 
Deleted member 2141

Deleted member 2141

The angel of choice is enduring.
Aug 30, 2018
5,309
TiredHorse has provided really good information here. As far as doing it in a car, I personally don't mind as my car is under my name and my own property. I can understand why one wouldn't do it in a hotel, apartment, or another person's home, especially if they care about that other person's property value or sparing them trauma.

Speaking of not aiming in the mouth, @TiredHorse, are you referring to handguns only? Since I'm using a shotgun, I am unable to aim at the head and would have to go via inside the mouth at an angle. Also, my other question is when you said you don't need buckshot, what is the minumum cartridge/shell needed to ctb via a 12 gauge shotgun?
 
T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,822
Speaking of not aiming in the mouth, @TiredHorse, are you referring to handguns only? Since I'm using a shotgun, I am unable to aim at the head and would have to go via inside the mouth at an angle. Also, my other question is when you said you don't need buckshot, what is the minumum cartridge/shell needed to ctb via a 12 gauge shotgun?
Excellent point, @thrw_a_way1221221 : I was referring exclusively to handguns when I spoke of aiming behind the ear. As you point out, that isn't practical for long guns. For a shotgun, the mouth seems like the best option. It still demands attention to aim point, though.

Just don't ever aim under the chin. It's a bad idea.

At that range, you could use pretty much any load you like. Dove and quail, waterfowl, skeet, buckshot, whatever. My guess is that the concussive force of the shot will be doing most of the work. Even if the concussive force doesn't do it, there's still a lot of lead in the round.

Remember, the size of the load --doveshot, buckshot, whatever-- determines three things: the distance the shot will carry, the depth the shot will penetrate, and the density of the shot pattern. The longer you want it to carry, or the deeper you want it to penetrate, the larger you want the load, and the bigger the target, the less density you need for your shot pattern. For doves, for instance, you want lots of little shot in a dense cloud, that won't tear up the small target. Buckshot is for a big target than needs deep penetration, and might be farther away.

For your brainstem, inches away from the muzzle, it really doesn't matter what you use. Range is nil, penetration is guaranteed, and shot pattern is negligible. Buy whatever load is on sale.
 
J

JazzyWolfWhistle

Specialist
Sep 10, 2018
347
For those who can’t get a real gun have you considered a blank gun? That’s a gun that only fires blanks by design. Hollywood uses them in movies for actors who are felons and can’t legally shoot real guns but since a blank gun is not designed to fire bullets only blanks it’s not legally considered a gun. I’ve been looking into this but I’m not one hundred percent certain it would work. Some actors have died from blanks. Blank guns are cheaper than a regular gun and you can buy them more easily than a gun because they aren’t legally considered a gun. I hope that some one here who is knowledgeable about guns sees this post and can investigate it. It would be beautiful is this works. I don’t mean to hijack this thread.
 
ReadyasEver

ReadyasEver

Elementalist
Dec 6, 2018
828
This could be my method. I’ve owned, trained, and hunted with firearms my entire life. I own a P226 which will do the job just fine. But instead of to the head, to the heart. It is at most a couple seconds of awareness, but in most cases it is instanteous death.
 
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Dead_Inside

Dead_Inside

Wizard
Jul 2, 2018
625
I just don’t think I can do a head shot. I really don’t want to end up one of those people who needs a face transplant or some person trapped in their body with family who won’t let them die. It might suck much worse but I am going for a chest shot. I need to be able to make sure this is working. I am hoping hollow point will help.
 
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johnny

johnny

Experienced
Dec 5, 2018
255
I just don’t think I can do a head shot. I really don’t want to end up one of those people who needs a face transplant or some person trapped in their body with family who won’t let them die. It might suck much worse but I am going for a chest shot. I need to be able to make sure this is working. I am hoping hollow point will help.
I look up failed gun suicides but the only ones I can find are people who shot from underneath the chin. Anyone know of any failed gun suicides that went from inside the mouth or the side of the head?
 
Dead_Inside

Dead_Inside

Wizard
Jul 2, 2018
625
I look up failed gun suicides but the only ones I can find are people who shot from underneath the chin. Anyone know of any failed gun suicides that went from inside the mouth or the side of the head?
Not suicides. But I have personally seen a couple point blank head shots that didn’t kill the person. One to the back of the head (execution style), the other to the side of the forehead.
 
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T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,822
Anyone know of any failed gun suicides that went from inside the mouth or the side of the head?
Yes: a friend of mine aimed at his temple. Destroyed his frontal lobe and popped his eyes out of his head, but didn't kill him outright. His family turned off life support a week or so later, but they could have kept him "alive" indefinitely.

If you're going to aim at the "side of the head", put the muzzle directly behind your ear, aimed level and straight side-to-side. That's theoretically a straight shot at the brainstem. It worked well for another friend of mine.
I am going for a chest shot. I need to be able to make sure this is working. I am hoping hollow point will help.
A hollowpoint will definitely help. I wouldn't use anything else, with a pistol. Still, it might take some time for you to blackout and die. A heart shot isn't as instantaneous as a brain shot. Entirely up to you, though. I completely understand your fear of a flubbed head shot!
 
Dead_Inside

Dead_Inside

Wizard
Jul 2, 2018
625
A hollowpoint will definitely help. I wouldn't use anything else, with a pistol. Still, it might take some time for you to blackout and die. A heart shot isn't as instantaneous as a brain shot. Entirely up to you, though. I completely understand your fear of a flubbed head shot!

I won’t lie- this is not my preferred method. And the time and pain is definitely not something I am looking forward to. But two good failed attempts and I have just realized that life hates me and the only way I am leaving is waiting for old age or doing something horrible to myself. At worst it should be about a 15 minute-ish hell and I might have to pull that trigger more than once. But once I start it’s just done- might hurt but it’s already started. Maybe in some way it will help everyone know that I was miserable- that I would rather kill myself like that then continue like this.
 
T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,822
Sounds like we're in about the same place. I failed three times, three weekends running, with eb/N2. I'll give myself another chance, as soon as I've pulled myself together, but as much as I don't want to leave my family a gory corpse, it may be that I need to resort to something with less opportunity to flinch out: a gun.

I would strongly advocate you do your homework: learn to locate exactly where in your chest your heart is, to the inch. Run drills; get so you can touch it at any time, without even thinking about it. Then make that first shot count.
 
Dead_Inside

Dead_Inside

Wizard
Jul 2, 2018
625
Sounds like we're in about the same place. I failed three times, three weekends running, with eb/N2. I'll give myself another chance, as soon as I've pulled myself together, but as much as I don't want to leave my family a gory corpse, it may be that I need to resort to something with less opportunity to flinch out: a gun.

I would strongly advocate you do your homework: learn to locate exactly where in your chest your heart is, to the inch. Run drills; get so you can touch it at any time, without even thinking about it. Then make that first shot count.
Life right? Who would have thought it would be so hard to die ....
 
johnny

johnny

Experienced
Dec 5, 2018
255
Yes: a friend of mine aimed at his temple. Destroyed his frontal lobe and popped his eyes out of his head, but didn't kill him outright. His family turned off life support a week or so later, but they could have kept him "alive" indefinitely.

If you're going to aim at the "side of the head", put the muzzle directly behind your ear, aimed level and straight side-to-side. That's theoretically a straight shot at the brainstem. It worked well for another friend of mine.

A hollowpoint will definitely help. I wouldn't use anything else, with a pistol. Still, it might take some time for you to blackout and die. A heart shot isn't as instantaneous as a brain shot. Entirely up to you, though. I completely understand your fear of a flubbed head shot!
Do you mean diagonally upwards behind the ear. or horizontally? If I go horizontally behind my ear I feel like that is too close to the edge of my neck and wouldn't be a solid shot. If you could take a google image of a guys profile and draw a point of where specifically you are talking about that would really help. Sorry I am just dumb when it comes to this
 
T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,822
Horizontally. Not in the soft spot behind the jaw, but just above that. You could put the muzzle in the ear, and that would probably do the trick, but if I use a gun I intend to aim just behind the ear on about the same level. For a profile diagram, look at the Wikipedia page on the brainstem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstem#Development
 
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johnny

johnny

Experienced
Dec 5, 2018
255
Horizontally. Not in the soft spot behind the jaw, but just above that. You could put the muzzle in the ear, and that would probably do the trick, but if I use a gun I intend to aim just behind the ear on about the same level. For a profile diagram, look at the Wikipedia page on the brainstem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstem#Development
idk, I just feel like there is way more room for error with the side of the head rather than in the mouth
 
T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,822
idk, I just feel like there is way more room for error with the side of the head rather than in the mouth
In the end, you have to go with what you're most comfortable with. So long as you know what you're aiming for, and don't do something stupid and Hollywood-inspired like shooting yourself in the temple, that's the most important thing.
 
Kyrok

Kyrok

Global Mod
Nov 6, 2018
957
Shotgun, 18.5" barrel... 12 gauge, 00 shot, aim to brainstem.
Re: OP, trigger is absolutely easy to manage. Will be just over 18.5" from head.
Or, get a Mossberg "shockwave" or similar...14" barrel.
 
LastRide

LastRide

Specialist
Jan 23, 2020
362
This could be my method. I’ve owned, trained, and hunted with firearms my entire life. I own a P226 which will do the job just fine. But instead of to the head, to the heart. It is at most a couple seconds of awareness, but in most cases it is instanteous death.
Be careful, shots to the heart statistically go wrong very frequently, the ribcage can divert the bullet and if it ends up in the lungs without touching the heart....well you have a lot of time to die painfully ahead of you, or a lot of time to be found and rescued once people hear the gunshot....