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MidnightDream

MidnightDream

Vibing & surviving (ish)
Sep 5, 2022
315
I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get better. I don’t even know if I want to. I don’t want to keep suffering wind I’m clinging onto the idea of suicide as an escape even though I know full well I’ll never have the balls to do it. So I feel like I’m just in a weird middle ground between ctb and recovery, and I know I need to make a decision but I’ve never been very good with that.

Even if I did choose recovery, how? I don’t want to do anything. Getting out of bed sucks. They say go to the gym, exercise, surround yourself with good people - but I don’t WANT to. I understand that these things require motivation and determination and I don’t have either.
 
Nirrend

Nirrend

The important is not how long you live ...
Mar 12, 2022
395
I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get better. I don’t even know if I want to. I don’t want to keep suffering wind I’m clinging onto the idea of suicide as an escape even though I know full well I’ll never have the balls to do it. So I feel like I’m just in a weird middle ground between ctb and recovery, and I know I need to make a decision but I’ve never been very good with that.

Even if I did choose recovery, how? I don’t want to do anything. Getting out of bed sucks. They say go to the gym, exercise, surround yourself with good people - but I don’t WANT to. I understand that these things require motivation and determination and I don’t have either.

Hi @MidnightDream

I'm sorry, I would have liked to have been able to answer before, but things have been complicated for me too

I'm sorry you're going through all this and I feel how lost you are, how hopeless you are. I'm sorry you're suffering ❤

It's hard to fully understand what's going on with someone when you only know a few aspects of their life, but I'm going to try anyway to maybe consider what is holding you back today

Maybe I'm wrong but when I read you, I have the impression that 2 things are colliding in you

-Depression (with moments when you describe that you have no motivation, less and less hope, fatigue). If this is the case, I imagine that you take less and less pleasure in things, perhaps you sleep badly, eat differently? Or I imagine that concentrating on your studies is becoming more and more complicated every day...

-Personality traits that can hinder you and as far as this point is concerned, I confess to having few elements but I hesitate between Borderline or Avoidant traits.

Avoidant means having little confidence in oneself, not necessarily having too much confidence in others, seeking to isolate oneself so that no harm comes to us. Borderline is very often associated with depression, the mood is unstable, one feels empty, with an incomplete personality, a desire to harm oneself, the question of our existence is very often the subject.

I tend to think that you are more Borderline, because there seems to be a question of existence, of the role we have to play, of identity and of what drives us to live.

I'm sorry if what I'm saying doesn't fit with what you are...

Well now, let's try to understand these fluctuations

You said it yourself, you don't have a will to live, you're between wanting to end it all and finding reasons to live and wondering if you really want to get better

First of all, you should know that recovery is a very complicated thing, I understand how often you must feel like you are going backwards, it's tiring and it's frustrating... I imagine that you tell yourself that you are going blind ❤

It's hard, I understand, but here's the problem.

In general, when we want to get better, we have to ask ourselves many questions in order

-Before a change, ask yourself if you want to change and ask yourself if it's really worth changing

1) Do I want to get better? If not, why not? What could I do to get better? Even if I don't have any today, what would be the things I could consider as goals in my life? Even if I don't want to, is there any way I could change my mind to get better?

-Then, when there is a motivation, think about how to do it and plan

2) Now that I know why I didn't want to change, what can become my fuel for action? How will I plan my change? What behaviour will I put in place?

Then, you have to ask yourself questions to check regularly that things are going well

3) How do I stay motivated to achieve my goals? Are my goals achievable, are they not too difficult to reach at the moment? Am I doing things right? If not, why and how am I supposed to improve my approach?

Observe changes and ask about relapses

4) Even if I have observed changes, are they regressing? How can I prevent a relapse?

These points correspond to what is called: "The Transtheoretical Model of Change".

In fact, it shows that change is not binary (I have changed / I have not changed) and that it is a slow transformation

The points of the model are: Precomtemplation (I don't want to change), Contemplation (I think that change is interesting and I realise that my current functioning hinders me), Determination (I want to change and I think about how to do it), Action (I act to induce a change), Maintenance (The change is enacted and I can observe the results), Relapse (the maintenance has regressed and it needs to be worked on)

Relapses are normal, it allows enough work to be done on the desired behaviour for maintenance to be sustainable and effective

To come back to your situation, I imagine that you despair because you tell yourself that you don't know how to get better, because you tell yourself that you have relapsed so much that you are almost back to the starting point...

I understand, it's hard, it's depressing and it makes you want to let go ❤

Know that you obviously have the right, this struggle is so complicated, don't blame yourself, anyone would be down, anyone would think about suicide and it doesn't make you any less brave ❤😊

Actually, reading you I feel like you want to swim across an ocean without even being sure you know how to swim. You want to advance through the levels of the model without even having validated the first point.

But I think the source of all this is much deeper. I already think that the suffering is old and lasting, that the themes are delicate. Maybe things related to a lack of love? Loneliness? A mourning? A separation? A failure? Or harassment?

In any case, I have the impression of perceiving something that has never been accepted.

Even if I'm wrong, I have the feeling that your studies or the things you do are just filling a daily life that you find insignificant. Is this diploma a choice or just something that justifies that you have to continue? The day you get it, will you be happy or will your death wish be even stronger?

Do you understand? ❤ Ask yourself already why you feel like this, what keeps hurting you like this? ❤

Ask yourself also if the things you do are not allowing you to distract your mind! Sometimes pain hides behind things that we take for passions, reasons to live, activities!

You have to look inside yourself and overcome these things ❤

And you'll see, once you'll be freed of these weights, things will be easier, because you'll be able to apply these changes knowing where you're going and without fear of having regrets ❤😊

Anyway, I'm talking too much, I know you're suffering, I know you're lost but you can do this! We love you, we are proud of you and I know things can be resolved ❤😊

You're suffering but I know great things await you ❤ You deserve it so much ❤😊

I hope it helped you a little bit! The day you'll understand what's holding you back, let us know, we'll support you no matter what ❤

Love sweet @MidnightDream
 
S

SarRy

Student
Oct 5, 2022
159
Alright, so, what can you do? It's not about others,what they say, or what they do. Recovery is about you. Indecision might be taken as a sign that you feel you have some options to explore. A large part of the whole deal is knowing your own situation. Trying to look at things objectively and without emotion as much as you can would be a good start.

I hope you find peace.
 
R

Regen

Student
Aug 20, 2020
173
I feel you. I am in this middle world too.

I wish I could recover, but I have the feeling it is not possible. But I also know actually I cant commit suicide at the moment. My decision is, if I cant commit suicide at the moment I should try to get better. But it is very hard without hope, energy and joy. But I try it. In the past sometimes I feel much better. Not good, but really better. So I hope this better time come back as soon as possible.

Maybe it is good for you to act like you feel well and then it get better. Maybe it is time for you to care for your inner child and give him some presents, a cosy blanket and a hot chocolate. I hope you know what I mean.

It is difficult to say something, but I want you to know that I feel the same. You are not alone.
 
P

pauly1963

Existence is evil, meaningless and pointless.
Nov 12, 2022
108
I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get better. I don’t even know if I want to. I don’t want to keep suffering wind I’m clinging onto the idea of suicide as an escape even though I know full well I’ll never have the balls to do it. So I feel like I’m just in a weird middle ground between ctb and recovery, and I know I need to make a decision but I’ve never been very good with that.

Even if I did choose recovery, how? I don’t want to do anything. Getting out of bed sucks. They say go to the gym, exercise, surround yourself with good people - but I don’t WANT to. I understand that these things require motivation and determination and I don’t have either.
I suffer from clinical depression, anhedonia. Everyday I have to force myself to workout, because if I don't workout, I feel dreadful, low mood, no energy etc. Working out doesn't work for everyone who is suffering with mental illness etc. In the beginning it is very difficult to start some kind of excercise routine, but like all habits it will become second nature to you. Sorry you are suffering like this. I hope you find the solution you need, whatever that may be.
 
MidnightDream

MidnightDream

Vibing & surviving (ish)
Sep 5, 2022
315
Hi @MidnightDream

I'm sorry, I would have liked to have been able to answer before, but things have been complicated for me too

I'm sorry you're going through all this and I feel how lost you are, how hopeless you are. I'm sorry you're suffering ❤

It's hard to fully understand what's going on with someone when you only know a few aspects of their life, but I'm going to try anyway to maybe consider what is holding you back today

Maybe I'm wrong but when I read you, I have the impression that 2 things are colliding in you

-Depression (with moments when you describe that you have no motivation, less and less hope, fatigue). If this is the case, I imagine that you take less and less pleasure in things, perhaps you sleep badly, eat differently? Or I imagine that concentrating on your studies is becoming more and more complicated every day...

-Personality traits that can hinder you and as far as this point is concerned, I confess to having few elements but I hesitate between Borderline or Avoidant traits.

Avoidant means having little confidence in oneself, not necessarily having too much confidence in others, seeking to isolate oneself so that no harm comes to us. Borderline is very often associated with depression, the mood is unstable, one feels empty, with an incomplete personality, a desire to harm oneself, the question of our existence is very often the subject.

I tend to think that you are more Borderline, because there seems to be a question of existence, of the role we have to play, of identity and of what drives us to live.

I'm sorry if what I'm saying doesn't fit with what you are...

Well now, let's try to understand these fluctuations

You said it yourself, you don't have a will to live, you're between wanting to end it all and finding reasons to live and wondering if you really want to get better

First of all, you should know that recovery is a very complicated thing, I understand how often you must feel like you are going backwards, it's tiring and it's frustrating... I imagine that you tell yourself that you are going blind ❤

It's hard, I understand, but here's the problem.

In general, when we want to get better, we have to ask ourselves many questions in order

-Before a change, ask yourself if you want to change and ask yourself if it's really worth changing

1) Do I want to get better? If not, why not? What could I do to get better? Even if I don't have any today, what would be the things I could consider as goals in my life? Even if I don't want to, is there any way I could change my mind to get better?

-Then, when there is a motivation, think about how to do it and plan

2) Now that I know why I didn't want to change, what can become my fuel for action? How will I plan my change? What behaviour will I put in place?

Then, you have to ask yourself questions to check regularly that things are going well

3) How do I stay motivated to achieve my goals? Are my goals achievable, are they not too difficult to reach at the moment? Am I doing things right? If not, why and how am I supposed to improve my approach?

Observe changes and ask about relapses

4) Even if I have observed changes, are they regressing? How can I prevent a relapse?

These points correspond to what is called: "The Transtheoretical Model of Change".

In fact, it shows that change is not binary (I have changed / I have not changed) and that it is a slow transformation

The points of the model are: Precomtemplation (I don't want to change), Contemplation (I think that change is interesting and I realise that my current functioning hinders me), Determination (I want to change and I think about how to do it), Action (I act to induce a change), Maintenance (The change is enacted and I can observe the results), Relapse (the maintenance has regressed and it needs to be worked on)

Relapses are normal, it allows enough work to be done on the desired behaviour for maintenance to be sustainable and effective

To come back to your situation, I imagine that you despair because you tell yourself that you don't know how to get better, because you tell yourself that you have relapsed so much that you are almost back to the starting point...

I understand, it's hard, it's depressing and it makes you want to let go ❤

Know that you obviously have the right, this struggle is so complicated, don't blame yourself, anyone would be down, anyone would think about suicide and it doesn't make you any less brave ❤😊

Actually, reading you I feel like you want to swim across an ocean without even being sure you know how to swim. You want to advance through the levels of the model without even having validated the first point.

But I think the source of all this is much deeper. I already think that the suffering is old and lasting, that the themes are delicate. Maybe things related to a lack of love? Loneliness? A mourning? A separation? A failure? Or harassment?

In any case, I have the impression of perceiving something that has never been accepted.

Even if I'm wrong, I have the feeling that your studies or the things you do are just filling a daily life that you find insignificant. Is this diploma a choice or just something that justifies that you have to continue? The day you get it, will you be happy or will your death wish be even stronger?

Do you understand? ❤ Ask yourself already why you feel like this, what keeps hurting you like this? ❤

Ask yourself also if the things you do are not allowing you to distract your mind! Sometimes pain hides behind things that we take for passions, reasons to live, activities!

You have to look inside yourself and overcome these things ❤

And you'll see, once you'll be freed of these weights, things will be easier, because you'll be able to apply these changes knowing where you're going and without fear of having regrets ❤😊

Anyway, I'm talking too much, I know you're suffering, I know you're lost but you can do this! We love you, we are proud of you and I know things can be resolved ❤😊

You're suffering but I know great things await you ❤ You deserve it so much ❤😊

I hope it helped you a little bit! The day you'll understand what's holding you back, let us know, we'll support you no matter what ❤

Love sweet @MidnightDream
Hello you sweet soul.
You're absolutely right, I am diagnosed with borderline and have been since I was 18. Super interesting (and validating!) you were able to pick up on that from this post.
What you've written to me here is so, so helpful. I didn't know there was a science behind this, and you're absolutely right. I am a very all or nothing person, and I am probably being far too hard on myself and expecting myself to 'just recover' without actually respecting and following the journey. Those questions you've listed there are things I've never really thought to stop and ask myself, and this comment has really made me stop and think that maybe recovery isn't a state of being, it's a continuous journey. As you said, swimming without actually knowing how.

If I'm being honest, I really don't know where any of this has stemmed from, I've felt this way ever since I was a kid. There's a few things I could speculate that may have contributed, but no major point of 'yeah, that caused this'. I feel very uncertain on my current path, I do love what I'm studying but I am questioning whether it will make me happier in the long run, or make things worse. I'm finding it difficult to pinpoint why things have been so bad for me recently, because on paper, my life is good. Maybe that's part of why I am so hard on myself, because I feel like I should just be fine. I don't know.

Thank you once again for taking time out of your day to offer me help and support <3 and thank you so much for your kind words. You have indeed helped me, and I'm so grateful as always. Sending love <3
I feel you. I am in this middle world too.

I wish I could recover, but I have the feeling it is not possible. But I also know actually I cant commit suicide at the moment. My decision is, if I cant commit suicide at the moment I should try to get better. But it is very hard without hope, energy and joy. But I try it. In the past sometimes I feel much better. Not good, but really better. So I hope this better time come back as soon as possible.

Maybe it is good for you to act like you feel well and then it get better. Maybe it is time for you to care for your inner child and give him some presents, a cosy blanket and a hot chocolate. I hope you know what I mean.

It is difficult to say something, but I want you to know that I feel the same. You are not alone.
Thank you so much.
 
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Nirrend

Nirrend

The important is not how long you live ...
Mar 12, 2022
395
Hello you sweet soul.
You're absolutely right, I am diagnosed with borderline and have been since I was 18. Super interesting (and validating!) you were able to pick up on that from this post.
What you've written to me here is so, so helpful. I didn't know there was a science behind this, and you're absolutely right. I am a very all or nothing person, and I am probably being far too hard on myself and expecting myself to 'just recover' without actually respecting and following the journey. Those questions you've listed there are things I've never really thought to stop and ask myself, and this comment has really made me stop and think that maybe recovery isn't a state of being, it's a continuous journey. As you said, swimming without actually knowing how.

If I'm being honest, I really don't know where any of this has stemmed from, I've felt this way ever since I was a kid. There's a few things I could speculate that may have contributed, but no major point of 'yeah, that caused this'. I feel very uncertain on my current path, I do love what I'm studying but I am questioning whether it will make me happier in the long run, or make things worse. I'm finding it difficult to pinpoint why things have been so bad for me recently, because on paper, my life is good. Maybe that's part of why I am so hard on myself, because I feel like I should just be fine. I don't know.

Thank you once again for taking time out of your day to offer me help and support <3 and thank you so much for your kind words. You have indeed helped me, and I'm so grateful as always. Sending love <3

Thank you so much.

Hi sweet @MidnightDream

I'm glad my answer was helpful, there is a lot of science to it and human behaviour is much more complex than we can imagine haha!

I'm borderline too and that's why I understand this very binary tendency we have in us of the "either everything or nothing" type. The nuance is complicated to find but it's still important because as you say, what is fundamental is to accept the fact that we don't succeed as we would like, to allow ourselves to make mistakes, to forgive ourselves, and so on...

Today, even if the borderline personality is part (in the classifications) of the so-called "personality" disorders, many researchers are trying to agree to include them in the category of "mood" disorders

These personalities (like all personalities) are rooted in childhood events and memories. The personalities become established at the age of 18 (before that, one cannot speak of personality disorders)

The particularity of BPD is that the themes at stake are: identity, abandonment, loneliness, love, death

Being Borderline is often due to an instability or inconsistency of the love received in life. It is a fear of being alone, it is the feeling of being incomplete...

Afterwards, very often, personality types fit with an "attachment type" that corresponds most to what the child has experienced in his life.

For example, Borderline (as well as Dependent personalities) very often have a type C attachment (Insecure Anxious Ambivalent). If you read about these themes, perhaps you will recognise yourself

The Secure (type B), can have Narcissistic, Antisocial, Obsessive-Compulsive, Schizoid, Schizotypal, Histrionic personalities, and so on since this is the most successful type of attachment

Insecure Avoidant (Type A) may have an Avoidant, Obsessive Compulsive, Schizoid, Schizotypal, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Paranoid personality

Disorganised (type D), can be anything as it corresponds to abused children

In short, the attachment that best explains the personality corresponds to it

Finally, I was going to answer your "I don't know why I'm so bad at the moment" question

The answer I'm going to give you is very broad

You can have "reactionary" factors: this implies that something at the moment can stress you, make you uncomfortable and reactivate themes from your childhood (studies and failures, advancing age and nostalgia)

Then you can have environmental factors (seasons, weather, temperature, luminosity), for proof, the environment alone can affect morale to such an extent that there are "Seasonal depressions".

Finally, the Borderline personality has the specificity of making people who have it experience very hard times, morally speaking.

From the age of 18 until about 30, this is the period when this personality will have fun doing anything with the neurotransmitters and the activity of the limbic brain (emotional brain). Borderlines are unfortunately among the most suicidal people, along with bipolars, social phobics, social anxieties, some forms of psychosis and others whose names I have lost.

15% of borderlines end up committing suicide

But the Borderline symptoms pass with time and the older you get the less suffering you will experience. I'm obviously talking about the personality alone, because if you get older, but you end up homeless, alone, with cancer,

Well, even though you will have grown older and have fewer BPD symptoms, you will still have a lot of suffering, if not more, but this time because of what you are going through, the depression... and not because of BPD

Obviously, I don't wish this on anyone ❤

The most important thing I think in all this is to be aware of why we are going through this or that. It takes away the incomprehension, the Denial, the suffering, the guilt. It's reassuring and it allows us to detach ourselves from what we're experiencing.

Afterwards, be careful not to essentialise things. For example, if someone is antisocial and likes to make people suffer, you must not fall into the reasoning "it's because I'm antisocial that I make people suffer".

In the case of BPD, one should avoid "it is because I am BPD that I suffer, want to kill myself".

Even if being BPD explains things, we all have our experiences, we all have our free will to think for ourselves. You also have to take into account whether you have mood disorders (like depression) or not, whether you "really want to get better and accept a trauma or not"

Anyway, you got it, I'm not lecturing you but I think it's fundamental to talk about this ❤

Understanding ourselves and why we function the way we do is the key to breaking free from our chains. When misunderstanding reigns, emotion takes precedence over reason. And even if emotion allows for beautiful things, only reason really allows us to overcome suffering.

The secret: everything in its own time
The time for emotions is for emotions and the time for reason is for reason. You have to alternate between the two but never mix them!

Good luck sweet @MidnightDream

Keep us posted ❤😊

Love ❤😊
 
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