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proton4ever

proton4ever

Student
Mar 15, 2019
161
Its a truly a fucked up and miserable existence, that we're simply forced into this crap with no choice. And now we're also forced to endure it completely on our own. Any "crying" or "complaining" means there is something *wrong* with us.......... sigh...... what a true pointless torture eh??? And then "society" and "government" tries to hide every single possible peaceful CTB method you can find, and instead make it not accessible and illegal. Lol............ speechless is an understatement. Can feel this torture and trapped feeling down to my soul and bones
 
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lostautist

lostautist

wandering
Jan 12, 2022
135
Life expectancy is a circumstance of environment. We've created nice little conditioned living spaces and have easy access to food and medications brought about by advancement. We are no longer hominids living in caves fearful of the night preparing for hunting and gathering of resources or being enslaved or killed for them. We no longer have those threats, for the most part. This has developed faster than we have had a chance to evolve for. Many of the reasons people are here could one day be eliminated. Sadly, not today.
 
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C

Crocodiledundee

Member
Jan 9, 2022
11
I've read basically the same thing in a book about primitive cultures once, but the author said around 30yrs, and said that people older than that were given more respect because it was much rarer than now.

I've read basically the same thing in a book about primitive cultures once, but the author said around 30yrs, and said that people older than that were given more respect because it was much rarer than now.
To keep going on this, the reasoning is that say a 15 year old would have at that age basically all the knowledge necessary to survive being passed down early on in life and be capable to reproduce so by the time he is 30 he would have a complete generation with another 15yr old. A key point though is that a 15 yr old would certainly die without having relatives and a "communal" type tribe to fall back on when their parents die. So to constitute a "complete generation" you dont have to be a full adult or completely independent because humans arent made to be independent they are social.
 
blueclover_.

blueclover_.

Better Never to Have Been: 2006, David Benatar
Oct 11, 2021
614
I have a problem with Zinkenagel - yes, you can procreate by the age of 25, hell, some girls are fertile around 10 years old. But, if everyone died at 25, who would raise the children?
Either the child survives or not (Natural Selection). Usually other members of the tribe take care of the orphan. Nature is just cruel by default, it only cares about spreading the genes that serve no purpose other than existing for no reason at all.
 
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rcpilot

rcpilot

Member
Dec 21, 2021
15
With nine decades behind me I felt compelled to join this thread. I regret though that I have no deep profound thoughts to share. I can only add some things that popped into my head while reading the previous posts.

First off, I agree that we live too long, at least I have. At the same time don't think everyone over 60 is a doddering old fart. I was racing motorcycles in my mid 70s and was still pretty active doing things that brought me pleasure until a couple of years ago.

But, had I died at say 50, I wouldn't know that I was missing pleasurable things. Dead is dead. I also wouldn't have developed cancer, and my knees wouldn't have gotten so bad that I now sometimes use a cane.

When I learned I had cancer I told the doctor that I wasn't going to treat it. I wasn't interested in longevity, only quality of life. 13 Years later and it still hasn't killed me or even brought me much pain.

It would be easy to ramble on with nine decades of experiences but I don't want to do that. I've been a subscriber to PPeH over a year and have made all my CTB preparations. I'm just waiting for what seems like a proper time. I'm one of the newbies here that found this site from the NYT article. I joined here thinking I might learn something that wasn't covered in PPeH. I've jumpted into some threads here when I thought I could be helpful but, like here, I doubt my contributions add much.
 
T

Ta555

Wizard
Aug 31, 2021
665
With nine decades behind me I felt compelled to join this thread. I regret though that I have no deep profound thoughts to share. I can only add some things that popped into my head while reading the previous posts.

First off, I agree that we live too long, at least I have. At the same time don't think everyone over 60 is a doddering old fart. I was racing motorcycles in my mid 70s and was still pretty active doing things that brought me pleasure until a couple of years ago.

But, had I died at say 50, I wouldn't know that I was missing pleasurable things. Dead is dead. I also wouldn't have developed cancer, and my knees wouldn't have gotten so bad that I now sometimes use a cane.

When I learned I had cancer I told the doctor that I wasn't going to treat it. I wasn't interested in longevity, only quality of life. 13 Years later and it still hasn't killed me or even brought me much pain.

It would be easy to ramble on with nine decades of experiences but I don't want to do that. I've been a subscriber to PPeH over a year and have made all my CTB preparations. I'm just waiting for what seems like a proper time. I'm one of the newbies here that found this site from the NYT article. I joined here thinking I might learn something that wasn't covered in PPeH. I've jumpted into some threads here when I thought I could be helpful but, like here, I doubt my contributions add much.
Your input is always appreciated! It's a discussion after all and it's interesting to hear other people's opinions especially when someone's had as much life experience as you've had!
I completely agree that there are many seniors leading very active and satisfying lives but it's also the reality that our human body just begins to break down after a certain age in minor or major ways. Life expectancy if you made it past childhood has been around 50 on average throughout history until the end of the 19th century. Now we have a lot of medicine and technology to keep people alive for longer and longer and everyone seems to think this is a good thing but quantity and quality are two very different things.
I've noticed even in terminal illnesses they try to post pone death as much as possible instead of being compassionate and seeing when enough is enough. My grandfather passed away from several cancers. In his last days he was emaciated, delirious, his brain function had gone (had a brain tumour), couldn't eat or drink, only getting fluid from a sponge my grandmother would hold to his mouth. A nurse would come in and change his diaper. I couldn't bring myself to see him in the last two days, he looked horrible. It makes me angry. It makes me so angry. What was the point of those last days? Of even those last two weeks when his mind started going and he didn't know where he was or who we were? It's disgusting. I don't know why some religious nutcases are so intent on keeping this autonomy from us and why their views get to dictate law.
Sorry ..I rambled on a bit but I just had to get that out.
I'm glad you have a means set up. I wish I had a reliable method ready to go too :(
 
M

MyStateKilledMe

Specialist
Apr 23, 2020
369
There's an Aesop's fable about this.

Zeus (or Jove) created Man, but gave him a short life. The Man insists on more, but Zeus doesn't budge. Since the Man had intelligence, when the winter came, he built a house, and used fire to heat it. Suddenly, there's a knock on the door. It's a Donkey.
"Can I come in and stay warm?"
"You can, but I want some of your life years."
The Donkey says OK, comes in, and stays warm. Later on, the winter gets colder. There's another knock on the door. It's a Dog.
"Can I come in and stay warm?"
"You can, but I want some of your life years."
The Dog says OK, comes in, comes in and stays warm. The winter gets even more brutal. There's yet another knock on the door. It's a Monkey.
"Can I come in and stay warm?"
"You can, but I want some of your life years."
The Monkey says OK, comes in, and stays warm. The animals hunker down until spring arrives. Once it gets warm enough, the animals leave.

And so... this how it is today. The Man lives a fairly pleasant life only in the years originally given to him: a delicate balance of burden and joy. During the Donkey's years, he just works and works, and doesn't know why. During the Dog's years, he's too weak to do much, and just growls at everyone walking past. And during the Monkey's years, he's a little more than a laughingstock for the people around him.

That's why I like the idea of a 30-year life expectancy, which was true in the Middle Ages. And I'm 38.
 
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T

Ta555

Wizard
Aug 31, 2021
665
There's an Aesop's fable about this.

Zeus (or Jove) created Man, but gave him a short life. The Man insists on more, but Zeus doesn't budge. Since the Man had intelligence, when the winter came, he built a house, and used fire to heat it. Suddenly, there's a knock on the door. It's a Donkey.
"Can I come in and stay warm?"
"You can, but I want some of your life years."
The Donkey says OK, comes in, and stays warm. Later on, the winter gets colder. There's another knock on the door. It's a Dog.
"Can I come in and stay warm?"
"You can, but I want some of your life years."
The Dog says OK, comes in, comes in and stays warm. The winter gets even more brutal. There's yet another knock on the door. It's a Monkey.
"Can I come in and stay warm?"
"You can, but I want some of your life years."
The Monkey says OK, comes in, and stays warm. The animals hunker down until spring arrives. Once it gets warm enough, the animals leave.

And so... this how it is today. The Man lives a fairly pleasant life only in the years originally given to him: a delicate balance of burden and joy. During the Donkey's years, he just works and works, and doesn't know why. During the Dog's years, he's too weak to do much, and just growls at everyone walking past. And during the Monkey's years, he's a little more than a laughingstock for the people around him.

That's why I like the idea of a 30-year life expectancy, which was true in the Middle Ages. And I'm 38.
I've never heard that fable but I like it!
Life expectancy in the middle ages was actually around 50 if you made it through childhood :) the 30s estimate is an average including infant mortality rates. Basically if you made it through the most dangerous early years you could expect to live into your 40s and 50s. Unless you were a woman and died in childbirth...which happened a lot :(