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Deleted member 2141

Deleted member 2141

The angel of choice is enduring.
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
5,313
I couldn't think of a better catch all title, so I'm just going with the one that makes the most sense. I don't believe there is an invalid reason or less valid reason for those who CTB. What might be a trivial or non-issue to one person, may be a nightmare to another person. I hate it when people trivialize or try to invalidate others' reasoning by saying that said person should not suicide over xyz reason. Everyone's reasoning is valid and no one should discount another's reasoning or experience simply because it doesn't apply to them or have much of impact on their lives doesn't mean that said person who is suffering is invalid. That is just rude and disgusting to downplay another's issue simply because they don't experience the same life that you (proverbially) do.

Oh and furthermore, people are hypocritical and oftenly contradict themselves when they claim of free will, freedom of choice, but yet when it comes to the topic of death and suicide, they turn 180 degrees and claim that life is precious, life is valuable, you matter, and all sorts of feel-good, cliche platitudes, and stuff. Not to mention that they do everything and anything they can to intervene, including violating privacy, trust, and someone's freedom of choice, rights. Hell, some even go as well as to encourage immoral and unethical means (as well as possibly illegal actions) just to save said person's life. Society is really twisted in this regard. While that doesn't matter in the larger picture, what does matter is simply how illogical they are (then again, I suppose there isn't logic when it comes to topics of death and suicide (even so with assisted suicide, voluntary euthanasia, death with dignity, etc.). This is the one thing that angers me most, people deciding for others how to live life, forcing them to live a life they never asked for, and this isn't even touching on the religious aspect (even though religion has a strong influence on it as well) of suicide. (Furthermore there are many atheists out there so the religious arguments/claims are invalid for them since they don't believe in that).

One other point I will raise is the people who deny suicide as an option, including ideation. The claim that someone who has the means (the method), a plan (time and idea on when, how, where to execute), and the intent are really at high risk is simply wrong, especially if you take a second thought about it and just think critically for a moment. However, most (not all, but the vast majority) mental health professionals have that stupid mindset of suicidal ideation as some sort of disease, illness, that needs to be cured rather than a coping mechanism, which also problematic and couldn't be further from the truth. I know there are other people who have actually staved off suicidality and made recoveries and/or otherwise able to cope with life when they know they have a way out. While my story is anecdotal, I'll share it as an example because some people may be able to relate to it.

Short Story: So back in December 2018, I obtained my method of CTB'ing, and I've felt a sense of control and peace because I know that no matter how hard, how unjust, how much bullshit society throws at me, and otherwise all ails, problems, transgressions by others, or just society in general, I always have a way out. This does NOT mean that I would just simply CTB when life gets hard or whenever I fall into a bad situation, but it allows me to live and strive to do my best as well as try to improve in life since I know that I can always (reliably) exit this world should things become untenable. Ever since then, I've been able to pursue things that I normally wouldn't pursue and be more courageous to take challenges in life because I know I can always exit.

Additionally, I don't believe that all suicides are impulsive or are done irrationally. There are rational suicides, especially those who are suffering for a long time (years) and/or have a problem that is likely ongoing and perhaps, permanent (think cancer, quadriplegia, ALS, MS, to name a few). The idea that suicide is irrational and impulsive and that people need to helped against their will is just disgusting. We don't do that for mass murderers, murderers, rapists, and other heinous criminals committing such horrific crimes, but we condemn them and sometimes even wish that they be put to death (in places that have the death penalty on the books) for their actions. It is rather ironic that someone could commit such horrible crimes and be deemed rational, fit to stand trial (not all, but most), and be punished accordingly, whereas suicidal people are deemed unable to make choices and are irrational.

Finally, the way suicide is handled in present day society (2019) is barbaric and a grotesque violation of human, civil rights. Someone who wants to die is treated like a criminal, animal, and/or otherwise with less dignity and respect. The said person has broken no laws, done nothing illegal, and yet can be detained against their will in a psych hold (and then possibly extended into a longer stay at a psych ward) for simply being a threat to themselves. Until people are no longer punished or otherwise have intervention against their will for not having committed any crimes or wrong doings, then people (especially us and I may be preaching to the choir here since most of us here already share my sentiments) here will NEVER open up about their plans, ideation, or anything that deals with suicide. Furthermore, the damage that results from the involuntary stay or even a psych hold is immense. I am speaking for the US especially (which may be different in other countries though), not only does one risk losing their career, job (if they are kept for a long time or so), their social life is ruined (people will find out, especially if someone just disappeared for a short or even long time), financial problems due to being sent a hefty medical bill, and of course, loss of certain civil rights, and even having a mark on their medical record (which does show up in certain background checks - so one can forget about getting that professional license or that specific career or clearance, etc.). I don't believe anything will change (at least not in the foreseeable future or until things reach a point of no return - aka too late), and this means people will often have to hide their true intentions for fear of involuntary treatment, involuntary force against their will, and even have to resort to uglier means to CTB (sometimes resulting in collateral damage). Again, while I don't support methods that involve others, I can understand and empathize with others that have limited options to CTB.
 
Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
1,031
thrw_a_way1221221 said:
I couldn't think of a better catch all title, so I'm just going with the one that makes the most sense. I don't believe there is an invalid reason or less valid reason for those who CTB. What might be a trivial or non-issue to one person, may be a nightmare to another person. I hate it when people trivialize or try to invalidate others' reasoning by saying that said person should not suicide over xyz reason. Everyone's reasoning is valid and no one should discount another's reasoning or experience simply because it doesn't apply to them or have much of impact on their lives doesn't mean that said person who is suffering is invalid. That is just rude and disgusting to downplay another's issue simply because they don't experience the same life that you (proverbially) do.

Oh and furthermore, people are hypocritical and oftenly contradict themselves when they claim of free will, freedom of choice, but yet when it comes to the topic of death and suicide, they turn 180 degrees and claim that life is precious, life is valuable, you matter, and all sorts of feel-good, cliche platitudes, and stuff. Not to mention that they do everything and anything they can to intervene, including violating privacy, trust, and someone's freedom of choice, rights. Hell, some even go as well as to encourage immoral and unethical means (as well as possibly illegal actions) just to save said person's life. Society is really twisted in this regard. While that doesn't matter in the larger picture, what does matter is simply how illogical they are (then again, I suppose there isn't logic when it comes to topics of death and suicide (even so with assisted suicide, voluntary euthanasia, death with dignity, etc.). This is the one thing that angers me most, people deciding for others how to live life, forcing them to live a life they never asked for, and this isn't even touching on the religious aspect (even though religion has a strong influence on it as well) of suicide. (Furthermore there are many atheists out there so the religious arguments/claims are invalid for them since they don't believe in that).

One other point I will raise is the people who deny suicide as an option, including ideation. The claim that someone who has the means (the method), a plan (time and idea on when, how, where to execute), and the intent are really at high risk is simply wrong, especially if you take a second thought about it and just think critically for a moment. However, most (not all, but the vast majority) mental health professionals have that stupid mindset of suicidal ideation as some sort of disease, illness, that needs to be cured rather than a coping mechanism, which also problematic and couldn't be further from the truth. I know there are other people who have actually staved off suicidality and made recoveries and/or otherwise able to cope with life when they know they have a way out. While my story is anecdotal, I'll share it as an example because some people may be able to relate to it.

Short Story: So back in December 2018, I obtained my method of CTB'ing, and I've felt a sense of control and peace because I know that no matter how hard, how unjust, how much bullshit society throws at me, and otherwise all ails, problems, transgressions by others, or just society in general, I always have a way out. This does NOT mean that I would just simply CTB when life gets hard or whenever I fall into a bad situation, but it allows me to live and strive to do my best as well as try to improve in life since I know that I can always (reliably) exit this world should things become untenable. Ever since then, I've been able to pursue things that I normally wouldn't pursue and be more courageous to take challenges in life because I know I can always exit.

Additionally, I don't believe that all suicides are impulsive or are done irrationally. There are rational suicides, especially those who are suffering for a long time (years) and/or have a problem that is likely ongoing and perhaps, permanent (think cancer, quadriplegia, ALS, MS, to name a few). The idea that suicide is irrational and impulsive and that people need to helped against their will is just disgusting. We don't do that for mass murderers, murderers, rapists, and other heinous criminals committing such horrific crimes, but we condemn them and sometimes even wish that they be put to death (in places that have the death penalty on the books) for their actions. It is rather ironic that someone could commit such horrible crimes and be deemed rational, fit to stand trial (not all, but most), and be punished accordingly, whereas suicidal people are deemed unable to make choices and are irrational.

Finally, the way suicide is handled in present day society (2019) is barbaric and a grotesque violation of human, civil rights. Someone who wants to die is treated like a criminal, animal, and/or otherwise with less dignity and respect. The said person has broken no laws, done nothing illegal, and yet can be detained against their will in a psych hold (and then possibly extended into a longer stay at a psych ward) for simply being a threat to themselves. Until people are no longer punished or otherwise have intervention against their will for not having committed any crimes or wrong doings, then people (especially us and I may be preaching to the choir here since most of us here already share my sentiments) here will NEVER open up about their plans, ideation, or anything that deals with suicide. Furthermore, the damage that results from the involuntary stay or even a psych hold is immense. I am speaking for the US especially (which may be different in other countries though), not only does one risk losing their career, job (if they are kept for a long time or so), their social life is ruined (people will find out, especially if someone just disappeared for a short or even long time), financial problems due to being sent a hefty medical bill, and of course, loss of certain civil rights, and even having a mark on their medical record (which does show up in certain background checks - so one can forget about getting that professional license or that specific career or clearance, etc.). I don't believe anything will change (at least not in the foreseeable future or until things reach a point of no return - aka too late), and this means people will often have to hide their true intentions for fear of involuntary treatment, involuntary force against their will, and even have to resort to uglier means to CTB (sometimes resulting in collateral damage). Again, while I don't support methods that involve others, I can understand and empathize with others that have limited options to CTB.

Actually, criminals have more rights than suicidal people where i live. Because suicidal people could theoretically be held in the psychiatric hospital forever, criminals not, not even murderers.
 
RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
2,206
@thrw_a_way1221221 I think that this idea seeps into suicidal people in another important way - it pushes them to try and justify their decision to others. You can see it in a number of posts here, when people talk about why they want to kill themselves, and about having trouble communicating the basis of their ideas to people they discuss this with IRL. You can sense a need to try and make the decision to CTB something that cannot be questioned - to me, this simply forces people to try and mask their troubles until they feel that their problems have reached a point where they have the 'right' to complain about them. You shouldn't have to give other people 'valid reasons' for suicide.
 
Deleted member 2141

Deleted member 2141

The angel of choice is enduring.
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
5,313
Just to bump this topic a bit, I suppose what really irks me is how people claim that you aren't owed anything in life, to pull yourself by the bootstraps (or equivalent statement/tough love), you aren't entitled to anything, but yet when you use the line of logic "well then I don't owe society or the world anything, and it should be my decision/choice to CTB" then they turn 180 degrees and say that life is good, and all other illogical, contradictory claims that you can't CTB and would do anything and everything they can to intervene, even as far as making things worse for you (locked up against your will, forced treatment that you didn't agree to, billed for the services that were involuntarily imposed on you, mark on your health/background records, etc.). Until the way that suicide prevention and the attitude towards suicide changes, there will always be strife, conflict, and anguish. Also, nobody who is serious about wanting to CTB will ever come forward and would have to hide any red flags/signs of suicidal ideation, planning, methods, etc., then hope that their method, research is accurate as possible, and then finally, after waiting for the right moment, opening, they must overcome their SI (survival instinct) in order to go through successfully. (To pro-lifers/anti-suicide people) So tell me, how suicide is 'easy' to complete! :angry: (Fucking dumbshits..)

On a slightly different topic, it irks me that people claim that suicide is easy and that it is a cowardly exit out. Newsflash: It's not. In fact, it's one of the most courageous things a person could do, which includes overriding the SI. I will say that if I am denied a reliable and peaceful way out, I will choose a riskier method (partly out of desperation, but also out of spite for how society and others don't respect my choice, my life, my body. I also don't believe in religious stuff so if the religious people try to use that to guilt me, it won't work.), that may end up with collateral damage. It is not my intention to do so, but would resort to that should I be left with no 'viable' option. In reality, I would just hide my method (firearm) the best I can and if there was any instance of discovery, then I'd claim legitimate usage and ownership of my firearm (target shooting, self-defense, 2A rights, etc.). Until then, I'm guarding my method as closely as possible as it's my exit from this hellish existence should things become too much.
 
B

Bukmeikara1

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
48
People claim that you have to live because you are alive and claim it as a sign from the Universe but quite convenient don't apply the same logic once they get cancer/tumor and run quickly towards the Hospital.
 
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