S

Santiago

Mage
Mar 25, 2018
588
Title says it all really.
I am curious how many people agree/disagree.

Now to back up why I feel this way. Many times people will say suicide in general is selfish. While I can somehow understand where they are coming from, I feel like many people don't have a different option. At one point it becomes selfish to accept somebody to keep on living for your own happiness.

Now jumping in front of a train however is a specific choice. You are no longer talking about 'not having any other options'. There are multiple ways out there that don't affect any strangers so it's not like you have to.

I guess I do understand that in many cases people do it without thinking about anyone/anything else. At that point they just want it to end. However does this apply to all cases?

Note: I want this to be a civil discussion/debate. I know it's a controversial topic but I am not going to argue with anybody who instantly gets aggressive.
 
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Jeko

Jeko

Member
Jul 21, 2018
8
So, in your opinion jumping from a high ground is selfish as well? I mean, people will probably see you falling, people will have to clean up the mess and your body will be 100% messed up.
 
S

Santiago

Mage
Mar 25, 2018
588
Also to clarify I think one of the main questions here is if you think there are many (if any) people who rationally decide to use this method.
 
S

Santiago

Mage
Mar 25, 2018
588
So, in your opinion jumping from a high ground is selfish as well? I mean, people will probably see you falling, people will have to clean up the mess and your body will be 100% messed up.

In a public place, yes I would say so.

As for the people who's job it is to clean bodies etc... I honestly say I would care less because they chose that job. Same way police will have to come if you hang/shoot yourself.

To me it's more about the strangers who don't want to get involved with it.
 
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S

Santiago

Mage
Mar 25, 2018
588
Also I guess some random pedestrian won't feel guilty compared to the train driver.
 
Volatile

Volatile

God
Jun 18, 2018
1,286
The point of suicide is to keep the circle of suicide going. If someone doesn’t feel the urge to ctb after you ctb then the circle is broken. That’s how the circle of life works. People have babies so other people will have babies.
 
mattwitt

mattwitt

# 978
Jun 28, 2018
2,304
The point of suicide is to keep the circle of suicide going. If someone doesn’t feel the urge to ctb after you ctb then the circle is broken. That’s how the circle of life works. People have babies so other people will have babies.
even monkeys commit suicide!
 
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S

Ssname

Experienced
Jun 30, 2018
268
I don't know if I would have used the word "selfish" but I would certainly encourage people to use an alternative methods because of the effect on the driver and to a lesser extent passengers as well as it not being a great way to die.

I would encourage anyone who is thinking of suiside to stop and have a good long think and research about what method they will try. Not to be a pro lifer just so that they can be fully informed and to me train just isn't a good enough method. It's a shame because I live right by a train line
 
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Tiburcio

Tiburcio

Voluntary deletion.
May 9, 2018
1,573
The point of suicide is to keep the circle of suicide going. If someone doesn’t feel the urge to ctb after you ctb then the circle is broken. That’s how the circle of life works. People have babies so other people will have babies.
I think it's an interesting point of view.

Basically, they both work in a similar way but following the reversed process. Some people wants to keep this planet living constantly and others think ending the existence is the best possible option.
 
Luke

Luke

tired
Apr 11, 2018
293
Title says it all really.
I am curious how many people agree/disagree.

Now to back up why I feel this way. Many times people will say suicide in general is selfish. While I can somehow understand where they are coming from, I feel like many people don't have a different option. At one point it becomes selfish to accept somebody to keep on living for your own happiness.

Now jumping in front of a train however is a specific choice. You are no longer talking about 'not having any other options'. There are multiple ways out there that don't affect any strangers so it's not like you have to.

I guess I do understand that in many cases people do it without thinking about anyone/anything else. At that point they just want it to end. However does this apply to all cases?

Note: I want this to be a civil discussion/debate. I know it's a controversial topic but I am not going to argue with anybody who instantly gets aggressive.

I think it's selfish too for the exact reasons you outlined here. So I agree and have nothing to change your views.
 
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Anarchy

Anarchy

Invisible anarchist
Jul 9, 2018
384
In my opinion, no-one has any obligation to prevent strangers from being disturbed. Whether other people are traumatised or not is irrelevant to me. I will be dead. Strangers should not even be considered because they have nothing to do with the situation.
Nobody asked to be here. Nobody should have to have the burden of being responsible for everyone's welfare just simply for existing.
You might say that you genuinely care about the strangers, but you can't because you don't know them, so you just don't want to make them feel how you felt.

Just because you can possibly cause less suffering doesn't mean that you have to. Suffering is inevitable. I don't get why someone would choose to prioritise the feelings of people they have never even met over their own death.
Suffering happens all the time. I bet you don't hear of someone refusing treatment for an illness and think bad of them for causing other's suffering. Because they could have caused less suffering.
Suffering is a fact of life. It's always going to happen. And the people are strangers so why should it matter that they suffer because of it? Strangers everyday are suffering.
You might as well live your whole life trying to please people. Never say anything bad to anyone lest they suffer because of it.
Why should strangers factor into your decision-making?
Everyone has to deal with death at some point; they're going to be traumatised by it at some point.
Strangers don't care about the person who died - not genuinely: they can't genuinely care because they have never even met them. They are upset by the idea of someone taking their life.
But loads of people take their life. So they're always going to be upset by that.

Also, family members don't want that person to die. But people decide to die even though it would cause their family suffering. So why would you prioritise the feelings of strangers over that of family?

I don't get the reasoning that it'll be sad but family members will have to deal with it; why doesn't the same reasoning apply to strangers?
 
S

Santiago

Mage
Mar 25, 2018
588
It's not selfish, what is selfish is society forcing those people to die in such a miserable way.

I wouldn't say this point changes my view. I don't really disagree with what you said. I just don't think the train driver has anything to do with it.
 
S

Santiago

Mage
Mar 25, 2018
588
The point of suicide is to keep the circle of suicide going. If someone doesn’t feel the urge to ctb after you ctb then the circle is broken. That’s how the circle of life works. People have babies so other people will have babies.

I am not arguing against suicide. I am arguing against suicide by train.

Unless your point here is that by me ctb by train will make somebody else who happens to see it also so miserable they will kill themselves etc... the cycle continues.

In that case I wouldn't really agree. I think society itself makes people want to kill themselves. It's not necessarily a result of seeing somebody else do it.

Make sure to reply if I am missing the point here.
 
S

Santiago

Mage
Mar 25, 2018
588
In my opinion, no-one has any obligation to prevent strangers from being disturbed. Whether other people are traumatised or not is irrelevant to me. I will be dead. Strangers should not even be considered because they have nothing to do with the situation.
Nobody asked to be here. Nobody should have to have the burden of being responsible for everyone's welfare just simply for existing.
You might say that you genuinely care about the strangers, but you can't because you don't know them, so you just don't want to make them feel how you felt.

Just because you can possibly cause less suffering doesn't mean that you have to. Suffering is inevitable. I don't get why someone would choose to prioritise the feelings of people they have never even met over their own death.
Suffering happens all the time. I bet you don't hear of someone refusing treatment for an illness and think bad of them for causing other's suffering. Because they could have caused less suffering.
Suffering is a fact of life. It's always going to happen. And the people are strangers so why should it matter that they suffer because of it? Strangers everyday are suffering.
You might as well live your whole life trying to please people. Never say anything bad to anyone lest they suffer because of it.
Why should strangers factor into your decision-making?
Everyone has to deal with death at some point; they're going to be traumatised by it at some point.
Strangers don't care about the person who died - not genuinely: they can't genuinely care because they have never even met them. They are upset by the idea of someone taking their life.
But loads of people take their life. So they're always going to be upset by that.

Also, family members don't want that person to die. But people decide to die even though it would cause their family suffering. So why would you prioritise the feelings of strangers over that of family?

I don't get the reasoning that it'll be sad but family members will have to deal with it; why doesn't the same reasoning apply to strangers?
Everything you said makes sense to me. But wouldn't you still call it selfish?

Remember being selfish isn't necessarily a bad thing. I personally think it is in this case and I think you don't.

I have the feeling however that we can both agree on it being selfish.
 
Anarchy

Anarchy

Invisible anarchist
Jul 9, 2018
384
I don't think it can be called selfish. Every action has to potential to cause suffering. For other suicide methods, you decide to die because you think that it's best for you. This is just the same. Both are decisions made with one's interests in the foreground.
The only difference between the train and other methods is that train could potentially disturb a few more onlookers. But any suicide disturbs strangers, even if the strangers just hear about it. So you could say any suicide is selfish.
You might argue that it is selfish if it us done solely out of spite. But train suicide is decided for the same reasons as any other suicide. The reasons are the same, and it's the reasons that makes something selfish.
So I'd say that it isn't selfish. If you must call it anything, "less considerate" is the term I'd use, but suicide is not abouy being considerate.
 
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Anarchy

Anarchy

Invisible anarchist
Jul 9, 2018
384
Just seems like the wrong label to me. It isn't about being considerate so I don't know why it's described with words that are about consideration. To me, it's like saying that someone's mean for writing a bad review of a restaurant.
You could only say it's mean if you looked at is an action that is supposed to be nice. But it isn't about being nice, it's about giving feedback.
So sure, you could call it selfish, but then you'd have to call it mean and offensive as well, because if you look at it in terms of other people, it will be mean and offensive to other people.
Anything's selfish if you want it to be.
If you look at any major decision in terms of how it affects others, you can be almost sure that it is "selfish".
 
U

Unsure girl

Member
Jul 20, 2018
24
In a public place, yes I would say so.

As for the people who's job it is to clean bodies etc... I honestly say I would care less because they chose that job. Same way police will have to come if you hang/shoot yourself.

To me it's more about the strangers who don't want to get involved with it.
Totally agree