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EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

Part Time NEET - Full Time Suicidal
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
695
Most of these are from SS and some are from Reddit. If you find your quote in here and want it to removed feel free to PM me.


I used to think that suicide prevention was just another case of good intentions gone too far. That people really did care about those that wanted to die. That they did in fact want what was best for us and simply didn't understand that in some cases, they were doing nothing but prolonging a miserable existence.

And yeah, people are sympathetic, to an extent, to those who are suicidal. Nobody likes seeing someone in so much pain that they would rather die than keep living, but what are they actually willing to do to care for the people in such misery? Not much.

That's why suicide prohibitions and the current paradigm of mental healthcare in general are so convenient for everyone else. Despite claiming to follow the biopsychosocial model of mental health, clinical psychiatry/psychology pretty much leaves the -social part unaddressed and almost unacknowledged. Everyone is perfectly content to pretend that all issues of mental health are a matter of pathology. "Oh it's no problem that you can barely afford to pay your bills. That you've been isolated and ostracized, if not outright abused, for most of your life. There's just a problem with your brain chemistry, here's some pills. Go to some therapy because you clearly need to learn better coping skills."

The nice thing about painting our problems as individual defects or deficiencies, is that the onus is now completely on us to make our lives more livable. If they accepted that people are often driven to suicide by external pressures, that some people actually can't make it on their own, then they would have to make more tangible efforts to support those who are in need. Or they would have to admit that their honest attitude is, "Yeah we'd love for you to be living a satisfying life, but if enabling you to do so requires anything from us, well then fuck off."

Refusing to allow people to freely kill themselves allows the rest of society to feel like they're supporting suicidal people without having to assume any of the burden of those lives. And they know it isn't going to be enough for everyone. That is made abundantly clear by the thousands of people who kill themselves every year despite how difficult they've made it to commit suicide. But when those people inevitably fall through the cracks, everyone will just pat themselves on the back and tell themselves, "We did everything we could to keep them from dying." Yeah, but you did fuck all to give any of us a life worth living. -Suicidal stranger from the internet



“It isn't humane to make people with serious trauma or mental health issues stay alive for other peoples sake. Life on disability isn't for lazy people, it's for people who literally have such mental health related barriers to contend with on a daily basis that accepting a pittance from The Government is their only viable choice other than homelessness and possible death from exposure to the elements anyway. Making individuals with poor mental health or trauma into scapegoats for societies greed, and blaming us for not contributing to a broken system is getting very old for many of us, and once suicide rates go up on a massive scale, they will soon have to find new scapegoats to blame their failing system on.

Also, I would like mental health professionals to know that those of us who are traumatized or suffering from anxiety/major depression, and most often several issues all at once don't want to be handed pills that turn us into zombies, who the working class can look down on perpetually. Many of us will eventually end up choosing suicide over being drugged into oblivion on psychiatric medicine until real help is offered for our issues like compassionate social integration and programs that facilitate dialogue between the 'normal' hardworking majority and those of us who feel the weight of the world weighing us down as were labelled incompetent and scourges within the societies we inhabit.”
-Suicidal stranger from the internet



“I'm so sick of this narrative from mainstream media and society. Suicide is a product of mental illness...which can all be resolved if you get help. Call this support line. Where you'll hear the same mindless platitudes and if you do admit you're thinking of killing yourself, get thrown in hospital in an involuntary mental health hold. Stripped of your dignity, your belongings searched, your appearance and belongings analysed, medicated, watched, having to pretend you're okay to be let out.

Tell me how this is supposed to help? And when you are let out, you're given a prescription and a number to call.

Whatever happened in your life to make you want to end it...abuse, trauma, poverty, homelessness, homophobia, racism, disability, parental expectations, broken relationships....whatever, none of that matters. If you just talk it out, access the "support", you'll be fine. No one ever talks about addressing the issues that put you there in the first place.

No one who wasn't already thinking about suicide - as an issue at least, if not an option for them personally - seeks out sites like this. And it's the only place where people like us can talk openly. (I'm new here but was on ASH back in the early 00s, I just wish I'd paid more attention to methods).

It's natural for those who've lost a loved one to look for answers and lash out at those they believe are to blame. It's lazy and irresponsible for the media to join in. Look at a society with appalling mental health support, few resources for the disadvantaged, and a societal discourse that forces open conversation about suicide into trite notions of support and people who can't even be honest for fear they'll wind up in a mental health unit, not allowed to leave.”
-Suicidal stranger from the internet



“For all the pro-lifers and anyone frustrated with their preaching...If they really wanted to help, they would have offered real support at the very least...Yet they don’t...

It’s almost like they’re wanting to limit methods to just make themselves feel better momentarily, not because they actually care?!? My question for those people is...
if you ‘care’ so much, what are you actually doing about it?

What are you actually doing that makes a real difference for the very people like us who are tired of suffering? Beyond a bunch of pro-life preaching that doesn’t actually help any of us in real life?!

It seems for many (not all) people on here, if they just had real support, real people that are actually there (for free) for them, real safety nets in poverty struggles, and if people actually asked them what they need to possibly feel better, they might not be as suicidal in the first place. Possibly.

Pro lifers need to stop blaming the victim, and also need to stop this nonsense of ‘just get help’, etc. The so-called help out there with counseling, shrinks, rarely works for most people. It’s an illusion of ‘help’ for many.

When I could no longer afford any counseling, my counselor could care less when I didn’t have the money. The counseling didn’t even really help, all these people have told me over the years is...

“have you tried deep breathing or meditation? Have you tried journaling?” Oh yeah, that’ll definitely completely turn things around for me...seriously?!?

Ohhh... Umm, SURE... if I just “journal and breathe differently”, I will suddenly no longer be in physical pain, or suffer from having almost no family, and my PTSD will just magically disappear if I just “journal and meditate”?

Do we really have to pay money for people to pretend to ‘’care”??? So that’s “getting help”?!? Counselors and shrinks are a complete waste of my time my entire life, and I gave them a chance. They are just human beings that take your money in exchange for asking stupid questions and use idiotic theories that don’t even work in REALITY.

I really did try everything they said even though I thought it was an unintelligent approach, I tried all levels of counselors, shrinks, medications, everything. Even when I disagreed internally, years ago I still tried to follow whatever formula they suggested.

Absolutely nothing ever worked. Nothing. None of their little ideas or approaches even put a dent in it. I also have a university degree in Psychology. It’s a subjective science that constantly fluctuates and is based merely on opinions.

This only avenue of so-called “help” is NOT helping.

It’s a fallacy and an ILLUSION.

Also, in many countries, and especially the United States, there are almost NO resources, very few support groups, and the United States government that has the authority, power, and plenty of money, could care less. They COULD do something to help but they DON’T.

Other people on a personal level COULD HELP but they DON’T. Why is that? Is it all about money? Or is helping a suicidal person just a downer for you or interrupts your lifestyle, or your lunch plans, should you really be preaching from your easy armchair? If it weren’t for so many heartless people, I certainly wouldn’t be as depressed. What about just doing what’s right? Or does that just not exist anymore?

There is greed out of control everywhere. The majority of the population can barely pay their rent. There are no controls in place. Violence is skyrocketing, homelessness, pressures are skyrocketing, and the government people in power do absolutely nothing. Hey, all they know or care about is they’re doing just fine, so they don’t even think about it.

If I had their job for even one day, regardless of the system in place, I’d be doing everything I can to make the world a better place in any way I could. I would make a real effort.

What’s even more terrifying is that more and more, most people have no conscience, most people are increasingly cruel, rude, and disrespectful to each other, and everything is unpredictable. No morals, no manners. When I actually DO encounter a genuine or a kind person, it’s like a miracle. I feel like half the population are a bunch of cold hearted narcissists or psychopaths.

It just feels like chaos to me, all I want to do is hide at home directly after work, and hopefully I can still make my rent to even have a home to have peace in...and to not feel surrounded by darkness and cruelty everywhere around me.

And why wouldn’t anyone want to escape that?!? To liberate themselves? To free their soul from immense suffering?

Basic safety, food, basic shelter, and a feeling of peace should be minimum human rights for everyone. There are more and more people that are tired of being used or abused, and it’s hard to find true friends. More and more people isolate themselves not because they haven’t tried... but because they are tired of trying seeing no help, no caring, nothing tangible in reality.

They have tried, they did try, they may even continue to try, and over and over again, all they see is nothingness. Nobody cares. People on this board, on this website, at least for the most part, have demonstrated MORE CARING than any pro lifer, with very few exceptions.

In the United States alone, there is more money and funding available, but they choose to use it on almost anything else but helping their own citizens. People preach, just do this or just do that, I have done ‘this and that’...I have tried everything already.

People say life is precious...

YET We depressed people are simply told “you’re on your own”, or “that’s your problem”, or “just go get counseling”, YET almost nobody wants to invest even a molecule of their time to help beyond a mere phrase, etc.

And you wonder why more people are suicidal or depressed?!?

There are many different types of circumstances where people cannot do it all on their own anymore, for whatever reason. Why does the society preach it is ‘your responsibility’, etc.,

this has NOTHING to do with ‘responsibility’...it has EVERYTHING to do with “I’m suffering and I can’t take it anymore”.

People are not robots designed to meet your definition of ‘responsible’ in this hardcore brutal place, they’re organic beings with needs and feelings.

The majority of the time, I feel like life is just work slavery, with very little time left over to actually enjoy anything anymore. Even worse, it’s very difficult to find trustworthy people to even enjoy life with.

And if you were to tell me that “life is beautiful, or life is precious”, well maybe for YOU it is…

For Me...this is like a prison planet with really nice scenery & a bunch of illusions that shatter, horrifying experiences with very few moments of beauty or peace or love or goodness. I know this world is out of balance, but I cannot try to save it anymore without losing part of myself in it.

Life for me is constant stress physically and emotionally. Life for me is 90% suffering. Life for me is a collection of traumatic experiences with people I loved and trusted that turned out to be predators and parasites or abusers.

Maybe if I had...what you have... I would feel differently. Shrinks or counseling certainly cannot replace our basic needs not being met.

I myself have helped many people throughout my lifetime. I’ve had people tell me I’m one of the nicest people they know, or one of the greatest friends they’ve ever had, etc. I myself have practiced what I hope for and ask for, YET 99% of people are NEVER there for me in return, not even for small things.

I no longer want to be an opportunity for people to be good or evil, evil is draining me. I can only contain so much damage to my nervous system. I can only contain so much trauma to my soul.I feel like a Rose, surrounded by evil weeds in a chaotic garden that’s falling apart.
I don’t have low self-esteem, I have a very high self-esteem and I consider myself highly worthy. That’s why I want to leave this place. I DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS WORLD.
Most people are selfish, and when you call on the hand they’re playing and preaching, they usually fold and walk away, making EXCUSES not to make the effort to help you. Most human beings only want a direct reciprocal benefit; they don’t actually care.

They don’t necessarily value the person, they just value what benefit they can get from you. There are exceptions to this, but then again they are exceptional human beings with amazing souls inside. It’s very difficult to find in this world. Very rarely can you find a friendship, much less a relationship, etc. where the other person just values you for who you are, whether they benefit or not.

It’s like the time that I saw a homeless man with no legs, rolling himself on a skateboard with bloody hands but had crusted over, a long scraggly beard, and he was emaciated from starving. When I ran over to him, as i saw all of his pain, felt concerned and asked him, Sir may I do anything to help you?

All of the filth and dirt covering his face was cleaned by his tears rolling down his face as he looked shocked, as he was literally trembling he said, and I quote, “you’re the first person to speak to me in over a year.”... I spent just an hour and a half my time, hearing his story, listening to him, and that he was an Iraq war veteran that lost his legs from a landmine and the bus driver would never let him on because he needed help getting onto the bus, nobody ever helped him, nobody cared.
I told him today someone cares!!
that day I made phone calls to shelters, found a taxi driver that was willing to help lift him in and out of the taxi, and the shelter manager Assured me that they would make sure that he got help getting a showered, fed, etc.
All he needed was someone to care for an hour and a half.

That’s all it took. Just a mere 1.5 hours changed a person’s life for the better...Why don’t more people do that? Is it so hard just to be kind?? For pro lifers that feel ‘sad’... Think that’s hard? Try living my life, then you know what sadness is...

Only I can decide what’s right for my life, only I know how much more I can take, and I am the only one that has to live my life, under my circumstances, and you don’t get to decide for me or my existence whether or not I just can’t take it anymore. ONLY i decide if MY life is worth living anymore...I’m the ONLY one that has to live it, therefore, I’m the one that gets to DECIDE.
For all the pro-lifers that preach from their easy chair but never actually help directly:

If a person is in despair, if they are exhausted, if they are at THEIR breaking point... you don’t get to define what their breaking point ‘should’ be... Ask HOW you can help the suicidal person...don’t simply give them the lazy easy brief answer of “why don’t you just go get help?”

The REAL question is...WHY aren’t YOU yourself helping? IF you really ‘CARE’ so much...
ANSWER ME... Tell me HOW You personally are going to help me or help people suffering in your local area?

I myself volunteered to help domestic violence survivors, especially as I am one myself. I myself volunteered my personal time and my energy for friends, even strangers, that were depressed and sad.

I myself have given part of my lunch to a starving homeless person randomly and frequently. I even talk to them to give them some of their dignity back. I myself have helped innocent children have a better life, reported abuse to authorities, and volunteered for agencies that create safe environments for them. I myself, every single day, no matter how bitter or tired I am, continue to be kind to everyone around me.

So what exactly are YOU DOING today, beyond any preaching, about innocent people suffering? What are you ACTUALLY doing to make the WORLD a BETTER place?!?

I already know where I’m going to go again, since I had an NDE years ago, for myself I know I will be in a wonderful place, not in this world.
I’m tired of trying to fight off all of the evil here, I’m exhausted. I deserve better, WE DESERVE BETTER.

For the world that crushes goodness...
you don’t deserve us...

For all of the people that claim or pretend to care but Abandon us in our despair...
you don’t deserve us...”
-Suicidal stranger from the internet



Please for the love of god, stop saying this pap to suicidal people! If you want to genuinely help a person in these positions, don't patronise them, they are well aware of the gravity and consequences of their actions, and just fucking listen to them, let them talk freely about their wish to die, maybe they wont feel so alienated and alone in such a dark time. If they are going to commit suicide, believe me... they will, and you missed an opportunity to let them feel validated and a last taste of human connection before they went, that's not in vain just because they died, kindness and understanding is always a worthwhile expression of humanness.” -Suicidal stranger from the internet



“May Callie be at peace, first & foremost.

As others have said on SS, why isn’t society addressing the issues that push people into so much suffering in the first place that frequently results in suicide?

ACTIONS, not dressed up words, is exactly what we NEED in every country.

Every individual has a different set of circumstances combined with a unique personality, set of strengths & weaknesses, and needs. However, the universal thread in each suicidal person is... “i cannot take this pain anymore; it is overwhelming, with NO TANGIBLE EFFECTIVE RESOURCE to help remedy my pain”...

The highest priority should BEGIN with these CORE FUNDAMENTAL SURVIVAL NEEDS:

HOMELESSNESS should NOT EXIST...CARE & SUPPORT for VICTIMS of domestic ABUSE should be cost-free...EASY ACCESS to MEDICAL Treatment should already be in place NOT contingent on finances...Society MUST change responses to VIOLENCE and its instigators instead of allowing so much overwhelming damage.

How the heck can people actually be expected to be functional and relaxed in an out of control environment?!

The majority of ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, and FRUSTRATIONS are a DIRECT REACTION to TOXIC, UNHEALTHY, STRESSFUL ENVIRONMENTS. STOP BLAMING the VICTIM for their NATURAL REACTION to CRUELTY inflicted upon them. Our Reaction is not “mental illness”, the environment is unreasonable in the first place.

No more excuses or justifications for the above MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR SURVIVAL... if they care so much about preventing suicide, demand that your government and your community on every level not just EMPTY PROMISES, but actually succeed in CREATING those MINIMUM STANDARDS for FUNCTIONING.

When people are FACED with the DAMAGING effects of ABUSE, the invisible gun to people’s heads of threats of terrifying HOMELESSNESS & non-stop pressures of wage slavery, and with QUALITY medical care being only accessible to people with higher incomes... SUICIDES will CONTINUE UNTIL EFFECTIVE SUPPORT to remedy the underlying reasons are implemented.

This SS site has very likely PREVENTED / at least DELAYED My SUICIDE because i have more often felt CATHARTIC RELIEF... Validation of my deepest feelings, and best of all... SAFER SUPPORT that does NOT EXIST in so-called “counseling” available.

People that claim to “care” need to stop deciding for us what we should think, but we should be feeling, or what we should be doing. We feel the way we feel, it is what it is...

No other human being has the right to say, “well you should just get over it”, or “think positive”, one person might be able to handle a set of circumstances... but another person cannot.

All this NONSENSE of “pull yourself up” or “just get help” needs to STOP... If it were really that easy People would have already done so. They cannot keep comparing what they would do, or what other people have done, every individual is unique.

This pervasive cruel culture community attitude of “that’s your problem” or “you’re on your own”... will perpetuate and destroy many as the last thread they cling to is frequently destroyed. What exactly are we paying high taxes for... to a group of people that don’t even care about us?

Every country’s Government has responsibilities to those without authority... Why is it that they can easily vote for $ billions to be spent on certain programs or wars for example, YET they CHOOSE NOT to approve even one tenth of money on the very population they are being paid via forced taxes to help prosper?? Why is everything else a priority except the very population it purports to value?

If a suicidal individual needs more than what is available in limited “help” more relief, then they need more... Only each person knows what their limit is, only each person defines what they personally need for relief. Not other people deciding for them.

What kind of community/ society do we really live in when its most prevalent attitude & response to suffering is “pay me to care” or “that’s your problem”?!?

Are we as a so-called society that “cares” showing compassion when given the opportunity to help people struggling & suffering? Is what they are doing actually working or making a real difference to the majority of those that are practically begging for kindness?

All of their definitions of “help being out there” they need to face the TRUTH that while that may work for a smaller percentage of the population, all of this so-called ”help” is mostly THEORY NOT REALITY & doesn’t make a damn bit of difference for at least HALF of the human POPULATION.

Until we as a SPECIES demand REAL SUPPORT for each other, Suicide will continue.

Their insensitive cliche of “That’s life” only further isolates people that need real care; as if “that’s just way it is” was somehow agreed to when people are born into this miserable chaos called “life”. Thank goodness i stayed strong enough to never have children here; why would i want to procreate or have my precious babies into a heartless world?!

I REFUSE to ACCEPT this so-called “life” environment as good enough for me or my unborn offspring.

Suicide is also the ULTIMATE ACT of REBELLION AGAINST a CRUEL WORLD.

People will continue to try to ESCAPE this often NIGHTMARE ENVIRONMENT called SOCIETY with massive amounts of SUFFERING with abusers, sexual predators, mostly greedy economic systems that benefit only the lucky 15%, with out of control violence and skyrocketing homelessness, and LACK of COMPASSION in ACTION...

Reading Callie’s highly intelligent & insightful words from her heart and beautiful soul... confirms what WE are all trying to communicate. Dearest Callie...We will see you in heaven someday you sweet soul. May God hold her safely with Love & Goodness all around her..

Again and Again, millions of souls’ anguish around this world continue to be falling on collective society’s deaf ears that ironically spout mantras that do NOT PROVIDE RELIEF for US.

Like all of us are saying here, Callie’s feelings ECHO and REVERBERATE what WE are also FEELING.” -Suicidal stranger from the internet



“Living happily" itself is a myth. Nobody on this floating rock is consistently "happy" every single day unless there is something seriously neurologically wrong with them that makes them that way. Life itself is inherently suffering - this isn't some edgy edict, it's the fundamental nature of the human condition; we are animals, and moreso social animals, which, not unlike elephants, zebras, dolphins, cows, or donkeys, are biologically wired and adapted to chasing short-term fulfillment, and avoiding pain and suffering - to the degree we experience and remember negative feelings and experiences far, far deeper and longer than we do positive experiences. This is the telltale sign of our inescapable animal nature - the hardwiring that makes suffering so inherently unavoidable, and pleasure seemingly so elusive.

Boiling the phenomena of NEETdom down to "mental health" is a reductionistic fairy tale that completely ignores the context of modern life in favor of hyperindividualizing the consequences of that context down to the individual and leaving it there. Speaking of context - the factors you mention are not as much of an immunological force as you imagine. Our society is one rife with celebrity suicides, who so many see as the "winners" of our silly game - they have money, prestige, recognition, fulfillment, endless fancy toys and achievements - and yet still cannot escape the call to the void - which, if anything, speaks to the fact we spend our lives chasing things that really do not make our lives all that worthwhile in the end. Sure, it's nice to be clock in to your 9-5 every day and pat yourself on the back and tell yourself you're doing the right thing like everyone else, but this is the life of an obedient somnambulant - one we are conditioned for in this society. You know the script - go to school, work until you're old, save and scrimp the whole way through, retire, and go rot in an old folks home using the money you've hoarded your whole life. This might be a fulfilling life for an inanimate machine part that cannot feel and is not alive, but for a social animal that needs environmental enrichment and belonging and meaning to feel any kind of consistent fulfilment, it is a slow death.

This isn't to say NEETdom is some grand alternative - it is the final consequence of this meaningless life program - narcissized depression and almost total alienation, whereby one practically declares themselves dead to the outside world and escapes deeper and deeper inside themselves as a solace, until the crushing emptiness of isolation and loneliness destroys their ability to experience pleasure and often their will to live. This is typically because of the self-isolating shame that attaches itself to the status. As social animals, we need people in our lives to feel any degree of worthwhile. Interpersonal interaction injects our lives with a kind of meaning and fulfilment that all the technology, distractions and drugs cannot. Unemployment and NEETdom would not nearly be as bad if not for the immense social stigma, and if we could all expect to live in communities we felt a part of, or at the very least had friends who cared about us outside of our job title. Unfortunately, this is not the nature of our hyperindividualized, materialistic, and vain society whereby one increasingly derives their (narcissized) sense of self-worth and status from their ability to consume and brag about said consumption. Instead, we live in a time where over half of the population reports always feeling lonely and having few if any friends, 1/6 of us are on psychotropic drugs, and the suicide rate hasn't been this high in 30 years.

All the same - this doesn't make "successful" people failures. But it also doesn't make NEETs "failures", at least in any individual sense. The failure is society itself - in providing an insane sociocultural script that makes people incredibly sick; if I could call NEETdom anything, anything at all, I'd call it the canary in the coal mine for a society that is providing an age old lifescript that is no longer worthwhile, rewarding, or even meaningful in any sense - nor does it even guarantee the barest physical necessities for participation anymore; recall that wages have been stagnant for 40 years and we have wealth inequality levels that mimic those found prior to the Great Depression, what becomes all the more clear is that modern life is the new Great Depression. This is a dreadfully sick post-meaning society where mass shootings, panoptic surveillance, suicide, opiate abuse, loneliness, and alienation have become as commonplace as psychotropic drugs and psych diagnoses; which, if anything, says nothing more than that the very concept of "mental illness" is a desperate attempt by the system to hold on to it's collapsing validity by pointing at dissidents and shouting "they have some inherent biological illness that makes them this way!" As such, the realm of modern day psychology/psychiatry has become no more than another long arm of the corporatocratic, neoliberal police state, which has a part in allowing modern-day quality of life to continue it's decades long slow bleed to the sociopathic class - the wealthy and powerful.

We must think of NEETdom, depression, and a wide scope of psychological maladies as meaningful signals our bodies are sending us about the ways we conduct our lives nowadays, not as noise that is to be ignored and medicated away.”
-Stranger from the internet



"Will the therapist (despite the fact that not even a single provider in my area has a slide scale pay program for extremely low income people like me and even a coworker i know who got hurt on the job is still financially broken by medical bills even with health insurance which did not pay enough) ignore the inability of a person to afford their expensive service?

Will the therapist change the economy to stop poverty wages/unaffordable housing/unsustainably high rent/boring miserable shit jobs/unsustainably long work hours/work and school stress/political and economic and social issues that divide people and cause constant conflict and isolation and loneliness?/etc

Why recommend a therapist or try to fix people if after therapy people will just be thrown back into the same situation that destroys them again?

A therapist may be helpful for people who literally just want/need to talk about feelings, but it does nothing for people whose lives are being destroyed by situational stressors and a variety of political/economic issues that neither the therapist or the person can control.”
-Suicidal stranger from the internet



“Yes, most therapists must receive post-graduate education and certification. The education they receive is functionally like that of a priest; e.g. they are taught to view things through a very particular scope - whereas the priest is taught the lens of their particular religion, the therapist-to-be is taught the lens of contemporary psychology and its endless pathologies. Therapy in-and-of itself, is like a confessional in a church, the therapist is the priest and the patient the confessor. The patient confesses their worries and problems much like a would-be blasphemer would confess their "sins".

The sad thing is, "just put your head in the sand" is probably a pretty common response to the OPs concerns not only at mental health resources across the world, but from peers and colleagues; the patient lives in a world where being open about such things in the dehumanized, hyperindividualized public sphere typically only invites scrutiny and further alienation (likely from individuals who are just as alienated and scared as them), which increases their reliance on the therapist as much as it increases their sense of cognitive dissonance, as though they are caught between two realities in a depersonalized limbo. Of course, there's only the one reality as far as we know, but to this patient their inner world has become an enigma and its workings thoroughly mystified by an industry that portends one must go through many years of schooling and certification before they can make sense of the human mind; which is as absurd and circular claim to make as "God works in mysterious ways." - as if that explains why your toaster catching on fire this morning and the delay that caused made you miss your train commute derailing, killing everyone on board. Likewise, it is just as circular to tell someone they have a disease called "depression", which can only be treated by "trained professionals" - trained, of course, in "psychology", an invention of the human mind as much as the phrase "mental illness" with all it's implicit meanings. But the backbone of the entire practice is to be a truthclaim, much like any religion - they suppose "mental illness" to be as sacrosanct as religions hold their Gods; that is, as self-evident and infallible as a physicist would consider thermodynamics.

Perhaps it would be too radical to admit "depression" is an entirely normal reaction to a world in which one exists as a dehumanized, chronically hollowed-out wage slave whose life has been reduced to a series of empty, mindless labor and emptier consumption rituals, comforted only by addictive drugs pushed on them at every turn, and vacuous social ties of similarly hollowed out wageslaves who only know how to monologue and compete; who breathes, eats and shits microplastic, pollution and pesticides, and can't remember the last time they felt somebody actually cared if they lived or died. It'd be far too radical to admit we're living through the slow-motion collapse of the living super organism we call 'civilization' and every case of "depression" is like one little support column showing signs of giving out under the weight of a monstrosity that has become too bloated and labyrinthine for its own good. Then we'd be engaging in reality, giving the "illness" the scope it deserves, and psychology cares not for this.

The reality is, contemporary psychology functions much like a religion or a cult does, in that what one receives from it depends very much on what one puts into it - the power wielded by such organizations are directly correlate to belief of their followers. This is the power of placebo, confirmation bias, and magical thinking. If one considers their reaction to, say, climate change to be "abnormal", they merely have to walk into a therapist's office and their belief will be confirmed - their conscious experience will become a list of "symptoms" of "illness", for which they'll receive "medication". The words, the labels, the pills, they're all momentarily comforting, but none actually deal with the original problem any more than popping an Aspirin cures a raging influenza infection. That's because the entire "mental health industry" is palliative at best - worse yet, it serves at the behest of the state, which benefits massively from an industry that teaches individuals to view their life's problems through a scope that is not only decidedly apolitical but atomized as well.

Take an issue like climate change and this scope fails almost entirely - its sufficiently large-scale enough that the therapist's individualizing lens has no real answer to it. One who is trained in end-of-life therapy may have some more substantial answers that verge into decidedly philosophical territory, but most "by the book" therapists will preach willful ignorance; their role is not to create independent-thinking individuals, community leaders, politically-minded citizens or would-be revolutionaries, because they don't operate in this paradigm; an office vending machine is more communalistic than a therapist's office could ever claim to be. No, their role is to keep people complicit and complacent in the consume/work false dichotomy lifestyle for they are part of the very same paradigm, this being their work as much as preaching is a priests'. The "mental health" industry is obliged to meet the absurdity of the world it exists in and profits off of, and so existential terror becomes "eco-anxiety", another cutesy label which can be "treated" with the right combination of benzodiazepines and willful ignorance, just as a village witch doctor may have once treated "spiritual possession" with a concoction of ayahuasca and a ceremony. Now this ceremony only takes 45 minutes and $200 a week and a monthly trip to the pharmacy. Who ever said capitalism wasn't efficient?!”
--Stranger from the internet



As others have said, Psychiatry and Psychology are different. Psychiatrists can prescribe medication, while Psychologists are only lisenced to practice therapy and offer ways of coping that do not involve pharmaceutical intervention.

However, these two specialisms come from the same side of the coin when it comes to the fact that both of them are entrenched in the concept of diseases originating in "the mind".

There is an article floating out there somewhere about why Psychiatrists resist merging with Neurology, they seem to distance themselves from the idea of purely physical, somatic ailments causing someone to have a distressed mental state, I suppose because research is incredibly lacking in regards to mental ailments.

Likewise, many psychiatrists and psychologists seem to neglect very important environmental and socioeconomic factors that would rationally make a person depressed, scared, miserable, and anxious. I find it akin to scolding a person who recoils when they touch a hot stove. Your brain's natural response is to send out signals of pain in response to the damaging stimuli that has just burned the skin, you can't really control that reaction.

When people who are poor, alone disabled, underemployed or unemployed, marginalized, being abused, neglected, and so on and so forth seek assistance from the mental health industry, a lot of them are told they are ill and are either medicated unnecessarily or forced into things like CBT which tells them their negative feelings are cognitive distortions. When feeling awful and depressed in those situations is a completely natural response. If your environment is godawful, it is hard to delude yourself and pretend everything is peachy instead.

So instead of giving those people tangible help that would improve the mental anguish caused by their circumstances, or simply trying to provide symptom relief for things like lethargy, panic attacks, and loss of appetite, we tell them they are diseased. There is a serious lack of pragmatic help in these fields. People who need human connections aren't given opportunities for developing social skills besides their artificial interactions with the therapist. The impoverished aren't being given financial assistance. The unemployed aren't being given references and assistance with gaining employment.

I do believe medications and therapies have their place in some situations. I lived with a violent schizophrenic, who absolutely needed to be on a low dosage of Antipsychotics or else everyone in the family would be continually tormented by them. People who are violent or having extreme hallucinations do need pharmaceuticals to manage their conditions in the majority of cases. Likewise, Lithium can be helpful to some bipolar people. Yet, I think SSRIs are handed out like candy, and rarely alleviate the problem because the efficacy seems to be marginally higher than a placebo. A good number of serotonin receptors are in the GI tract, so I got nothing out of those medications except further illness.

Also, psychiatry truly lacks reliable diagnostic tools and relies on very subjective criteria. There are no blood tests, no scans, no biopsies, and things like the DSMV are often far too broad and speculative. I was seeing many different psychiatrists from age 13 to 20 and it took 6 years for them to order a laboratory test for me.

By then it was too late, I've had neuropathy for years now and it was very likely kickstarted by the fact I had dangerously low vitamin b12 levels for years and no general doctor or psychiatrist would give me a blood test, insisting my symptoms were psychosomatic.

Sure, these disciplines are not lobotomizing people anymore or locking women in prisons for disobeying their husbands under the guise that this behavior was lunacy and insanity.

However there are still human rights abuses going on every day in psychiatric wards. People being put in restraints because they're suicidal, forced drugging and physical exams that can traumatize a vulnerable person, gaslighting, verbal abuse, the list goes on and on. We should strive to criticise psychology and psychiatry to improve them, not shrug our shoulders and say, "well at least we aren't living in the barbaric times of lobotomies anymore!"

People airing their grievances against these professions on this forum doesn't mean that you personally have to stop engaging with these services or question their benefit to you, especially not if you've improved with voluntary therapy or psych meds and whatnot.

This discussion is not about those who personally benefited from psychiatry or psychology and thus see no issue with it, it is about the people who are receiving subpar, lackluster, un-scientific, and quite frankly, shitty care. Individuals who want things to change, and want to push for better treatments, diagnostic criteria, and services aren't going to impede someone from accessing things like talk therapy and SSRIs if they personally want those options for themselves and find them helpful.

But when it seems like the entire world does nothing but victim blame those who got no results from these things, and insists that it is a deficit of willpower and desire to change, that is the problem. Telling people they need to keep throwing out money to try a million different therapists is appalling. If you sent a plumber out to fix a leaky pipe and he couldn't do it, you wouldn't have to call 30 different plumbers to get the job done, would you? So why don't we hold counselors to the same standards?

I get that the science hasn't progressed far enough to understand complex cognitive processes and abnormalities. I am studying a Neuroscience degree, and I know how very little we actually know about things. Yet, we shouldn't put people in harms way and subject them to invalidation and gaslighting because of this. I blame stoicism for creating this falsehood that one can be in total control of their every thought and emotion. Sometimes, most of the time actually, that isn't the case. My severe ptsd isn't going away after reading some self help books about loving yourself.

You can't treat a malfunction of the fight or flight response with self help and mindfulness mantras. Neither can you fix derelict living conditions by popping a handful of pills. This is the dichotomy that psychiatry and psychology have plagued themselves with.

You aren't stupid for being skeptical of these things.
 
EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

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GenesAndEnvironment said:
Very good reads, mental health professionals and pro-lifers BTFO.

Although I have disdain towards the mental health field; I don't negatively generalize towards everyone that works within it. I'm sure there are some that genuinely want to help and don't use fear, coercion, force, or pills to do it.

Anti-choicers are truly scum though, I have nothing to say in their defense.
 
L

lugerepair

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I saved this quote from GoodPersonEffed (former member of this forum, RIP):
"If someone were dying against their will, there would be a moral imperative to save their life. But if someone is choosing to end their own life, will the one saving them take responsibility to save their whole life? Will the "rescuer" cure their medical issues? Will the rescuer permanently remove an abuser from their home and give them the financial support to establish safe independence? Will the rescuer heal their past and provide effective trauma counseling, and do their activities of daily living for them until they can do them for themselves? Will the rescuer go with them to work or school and intervene when someone bullies them? It is one thing to approach that person and listen to them, because they may not have had anyone willing to do so, but after that conversation, should they decide suicide is still their choice, to save them is to negate their autonomy and their experience of their own reality, similar to a pastor telling a battered spouse that God wants them to stay in the marriage and find a way to deal with it."
 
wordsonscreen

wordsonscreen

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blue_muse

There's no right or wrong way to ending one's life. Consider how much the continued suffering outweighs other things. Ultimately, as much as others express and show their love for someone they are not the person in constant turmoil - you. Remember, there's no rush to cease existence. These are your experiences, thoughts, feelings, pain and so forth. There is no invisible threshold that says you must endure maximum anguish to say "Okay, I'm done".

RainAndSadness

We shouldn't just legalize assisted suicide for every autonomous and consenting human adult because we respect their human rights, there is also a practical benefit called harm reduction. If people don't have access to peaceul means for suicide, they will simply look for other methods that do the job properly - altough not in such a peaceful way like SN for example. They will use other salts, train, haging and guns instead.

The legalizstion of unconditional assisted suicide serves the same practical purpose as legalizing all drugs. You perform effective harm reduction (because every person can leave with the most peaceful method, N) and move the process of suicide away from this platform to institutions with experts that have some kind of process in place. Obviously without the gatekeeping of mentally ill people because their pain is just as valid as people suffering from physical pain. And after a quick talk with these experts, just to make sure there are no second thoughts on your part, that you actually want this and that you're determined and confident, that this is your final path, you would be granted assisted suicide. Regardless of your background, as long as you appear coherent and somewhat rational. I think that should be the goal. And we should fight for that. Countries like Belgium and the Netherlands are not great but decent examples of such practice of assisted suicide.

Humans deserve a peaceful way out.




These make me smile :p

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

Let's ban all clothing, ropes, bedsheets, linens, and towels before someone hangs themselves, huh. While we're at it, let's ban water, trains, tall buildings, and food because you could choke on a morsel and die! Don't forget cleaning products, wouldn't want someone to make a detergent cocktail. None of these are as vile as that evil sodium nitrite!

Makko

Maybe we should move to advocating drowning as a method, so that they will start a petition to ban water.
 
EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

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lugerepair said:
I saved this quote from GoodPersonEffed (former member of this forum, RIP):

I agree with the quote entirely. Society and individuals try to force people to live against their will and have convinced themselves that they "saved" someone. The reality is they didn't save anyone because they didn't help address the issues that make a person want to commit suicide in the first place. Instead, they took the lazy, selfish, immoral, and irresponsible approach of throwing someone into a prison to make themselves feel better momentarily while doing nothing for the person they put in there except giving them more reasons to commit suicide.
 
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GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

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EmbraceOfTheVoid said:
Although I have disdain towards the mental health field; I don't negatively generalize towards everyone that works within it. I'm sure there are some that genuinely want to help and don't use fear, coercion, force, or pills to do it.
Goes without saying, no? I sucked at posting this morning and last evening for some reason, hehe.
 
EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

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EmbraceOfTheVoid said:
I know I'm annoying with these quotes but they must be bumped!
 
EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

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EmbraceOfTheVoid said:
I know I'm annoying with these quotes but they must be bumped!
 
KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

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Thanks for including my words. I feel glad that people can find some solace in my ranting. Perhaps one day someone with power will listen to what we have to say rather than treating us like heretics at the confessional.
 
EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

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KuriGohan&Kamehameha said:
Thanks for including my words. I feel glad that people can find some solace in my ranting. Perhaps one day someone with power will listen to what we have to say rather than treating us like heretics at the confessional.
You have a good way of concisely explaining and communicating what's wrong with society, psychology, and normies so I appreciate your rants as I often can't express my own complaints with my broken brain.
 
Sprite_Geist

Sprite_Geist

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"Life is like a movie, if you've sat through more than half of it and it’s sucked every second so far, it probably isn't going to get great right at the end and make it all worthwhile. No one should blame you for walking out early." - Doug Stanhope, Die Laughing.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti.

The quote above is not necessarily about the topic of suicide, and so it is left open to interpretation. However it can be used in the context of suicide given that some peoples reasons for wanting to end their own lives relate to the perceived sickness that Jiddu talks about.
 
voidparadigm

voidparadigm

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I read everything and summarized some:

The fundamental human condition is to suffer inherently. Suicide prevention prolongs a miserable existence. It isn't humane to stay alive for other people's sake. Many choose suicide over being drugged to oblivion. Narcissized alienation declares oneself dead to the outside world until crushing loneliness deprives solace and the will to live.
 
Schöngeist

Schöngeist

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It is always nice to see everything that is wrong in this world put into words.
 
F

filthyrottendirty

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EmbraceOfTheVoid said:
Most of these are from SS and some are from Reddit. If you find your quote in here and want it to removed feel free to PM me.
Can you include this one from the op?

 

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