Butterflyfree

Butterflyfree

Student
Oct 10, 2021
128
Is there any research that's been done on the one vs the other? Is The N that D supplies still the same as the N people used to go to Mexico to obtain from the veterinary shops and is it the same as Dignitas in Switzerland uses?
 
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Smart No More

Arcanist
May 5, 2021
461
It's vetinary that people go to Mexico for yes. There are different brands but there is only one that D supplies now. It contains 6.2g of N per 100ml. One bottle contains 100ml.

The assisted suicide organisations don't use vetinary N. They use powder as far as I'm aware. I assume that they get it from legitimate sources because they are legally run organisations. This is probably why the stuff they use doesn't find its way out into the public. It's probably heavily regulated.
 
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Dystopia

Dystopia

Nembutal November
Jul 22, 2019
347
Its the same as some bottles in Mexico. Just the concentration can vary from other bottles in mexico/peru etc.

Dignitas uses 15g of powder in about 50ml of water. D's N two bottles is equal to 12.6 grams (200ml)
 
Butterflyfree

Butterflyfree

Student
Oct 10, 2021
128
It's vetinary that people go to Mexico for yes. There are different brands but there is only one that D supplies now. It contains 6.2g of N per 100ml. One bottle contains 100ml.

The assisted suicide organisations don't use vetinary N. They use powder as far as I'm aware. I assume that they get it from legitimate sources because they are legally run organisations. This is probably why the stuff they use doesn't find its way out into the public. It's probably heavily regulated.
@Smart No More how does veterinary N differ from what Dignitas uses in respect to how it works, time it takes and it's effects?
Its the same as some bottles in Mexico. Just the concentration can vary from other bottles in mexico/peru etc.

Dignitas uses 15g of powder in about 50ml of water. D's N two bottles is equal to 12.6 grams (200ml)
@Dystopia does that equal out to be about the same? Does not a person's weight matter or is same dosage used for every individual?
The N I got from D is the exact same product I got when I ordered N from A a year prior
Curious what made you order twice?
 
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Dystopia

Dystopia

Nembutal November
Jul 22, 2019
347
Weight isn't really an issue, I believe this was more stated by A to get people to buy 3 bottles. 1 should be fine for the vast majority of people but if you can afford two it's better as it will speed the process up.

This is why they changed the protocol to 9/12/15g over the years. My only concern is most of the data available is biased towards an elderly demographic so it may take longer for younger (healthier) people; which is why 24h alone is also a good idea.
 
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PeacefulTonic

Wizard
Aug 10, 2021
635
Dying peacefully in your sleep seems like the most peaceful way to go… not sure if it’s quicker than nitrogen though. I don’t think anything beats ceasing to breath while in a coma
 
Butterflyfree

Butterflyfree

Student
Oct 10, 2021
128
Weight isn't really an issue, I believe this was more stated by A to get people to buy 3 bottles. 1 should be fine for the vast majority of people but if you can afford two it's better as it will speed the process up.

This is why they changed the protocol to 9/12/15g over the years. My only concern is most of the data available is biased towards an elderly demographic so it may take longer for younger (healthier) people; which is why 24h alone is also a good idea.
@Dystopia I weigh 190 so two bottles may be called for? I am terribly physically disabled but not weak, old and feeble. Wouldn't two bottles make vomiting more of a concern? Can it take up to 24 hours to pass with N? My other option is Nitrogen with hood. I think that would be quicker and more peaceful? I don't know how to choose between them.
Dying peacefully in your sleep seems like the most peaceful way to go… not sure if it’s quicker than nitrogen though. I don’t think anything beats ceasing to breath while in a coma
@PeacefulTonic can anything go wrong with N? I mean have people woken up after a long nap?
 
Butterflyfree

Butterflyfree

Student
Oct 10, 2021
128
Vomiting while unconscious, but that’s extremely rare. If they’ve taken the correct dose, don’t vomit, and give themselves 24 hours not to be found, it’s pretty much a 100% success rate

I weigh a third less than you and I’ll be using two bottles
@PeacefulTonic Do you know if there are studies that were done on this or any credible research that someone could read about successes and failures. I know I read about a man that went to Switzerland for the N (which I was told is not veterinary N) That took many hours, like over 24 to finally die and he seemed to be in distress.
 
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PeacefulTonic

Wizard
Aug 10, 2021
635
@PeacefulTonic Do you know if there are studies that were done on this or any credible research that someone could read about successes and failures. I know I read about a man that went to Switzerland for the N (which I was told is not veterinary N) That took many hours, like over 24 to finally die and he seemed to be in distress.
Sorry I don’t know where to find that info. But taking over 24 hours to die from N is extremely rare and I don’t think it’s something you should worry about. You’d be in a coma and wouldn’t be able to feel anything regardless
 
Butterflyfree

Butterflyfree

Student
Oct 10, 2021
128
Sorry I don’t know where to find that info. But taking over 24 hours to die from N is extremely rare and I don’t think it’s something you should worry about. You’d be in a coma and wouldn’t be able to feel anything regardless
@PeacefulTonic I have gastroparesis and it delays stomach emptying and absorbtion, do you think that would cause any issues?
 
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Smart No More

Arcanist
May 5, 2021
461
@PeacefulTonic Do you know if there are studies that were done on this or any credible research that someone could read about successes and failures. I know I read about a man that went to Switzerland for the N (which I was told is not veterinary N) That took many hours, like over 24 to finally die and he seemed to be in distress.
Do you have a link for this info so that we cam read about the account? I'm curious to know what signs of distress were displayed.

I'm pretty sure they have a system in place for people who take longer to pass and they inject them but this is probably a newer development that resulted from occasional instances of prolonged comatose phase. It may vary between organisations too because they have to choose to drink the N themselves for legal reasons so I'm not sure where the person stepping in with an injection stands legally. I think these instances are the reason for the higher dose of N became there was a time that it was much lower.
Gastro peresis is a complicating factor and meto does speed up digestive transit but not absorption as far as I'm aware. Unfortunately you can't rely on others to give you clinical advice entirely. We are just people trying to work this out too so whilst we can share info between us there is no guarantee of the validity of said info. Therefore it is important to provide factual sources where possible and remember that there is always some risk involved with any of this stuff. It's scary for all of us and we would all like somebody to guide us through it step by step but without going to an assisted suicide organisation we're unlikely to receive that and will have to decide on an individual basis if we can make peace with the risks involved. It's a lot to carry on anybodies shoulders but it's the unfortunate situation we find ourselves in.
 
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setup

Experienced
Nov 18, 2021
208
An
Weight isn't really an issue, I believe this was more stated by A to get people to buy 3 bottles. 1 should be fine for the vast majority of people but if you can afford two it's better as it will speed the process up.

This is why they changed the protocol to 9/12/15g over the years. My only concern is most of the data available is biased towards an elderly demographic so it may take longer for younger (healthier) people; which is why 24h alone is also a good idea.
Any info on the relationship of weight and dosage? Is there a chart like sn?
 
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Smart No More

Arcanist
May 5, 2021
461
An

Any info on the relationship of weight and dosage? Is there a chart like sn?
I've not seen one but it would be useful. I've seen anecdotal info but that's it. Most seem to think that 2 bottles (12g approx) is plenty unless very over weight. As 15g is the amount used by the legal organisations I can't help wondering if it's worth taking extra but just over 12g is a very high dose regardless.
 
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setup

Experienced
Nov 18, 2021
208
I've not seen one but it would be useful. I've seen anecdotal info but that's it. Most seem to think that 2 bottles (12g approx) is plenty unless very over weight. As 15g is the amount used by the legal organisations I can't help wondering if it's worth taking extra but just over 12g is a very high dose regardless.
How much is really overwheight? I read that too but I’m sure they control the dose depending on the patient and that’s prob a standard/average dose for them. I have searched and have come up empty as well
 
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Smart No More

Arcanist
May 5, 2021
461
I guess 'really overweight' is open to interpretation. I'm not sure tbh. Not exactly. As far as the 15g dose I'm pretty certain that's standard across the board because it covers all potentially unforseen issues. There's no adjustment for weight by the organisations as far as I'm aware.
 
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setup

Experienced
Nov 18, 2021
208
I guess 'really overweight' is open to interpretation. I'm not sure tbh. Not exactly. As far as the 15g dose I'm pretty certain that's standard across the board because it covers all potentially unforseen issues. There's no adjustment for weight by the organisations as far as I'm aware.
Hmm interesting. I am heavier but not morbidly obese or anything. I just fear of throwing up if I take too much as I don’t have meto
 
Butterflyfree

Butterflyfree

Student
Oct 10, 2021
128
Do you have a link for this info so that we cam read about the account? I'm curious to know what signs of distress were displayed.

I'm pretty sure they have a system in place for people who take longer to pass and they inject them but this is probably a newer development that resulted from occasional instances of prolonged comatose phase. It may vary between organisations too because they have to choose to drink the N themselves for legal reasons so I'm not sure where the person stepping in with an injection stands legally. I think these instances are the reason for the higher dose of N became there was a time that it was much lower.
Gastro peresis is a complicating factor and meto does speed up digestive transit but not absorption as far as I'm aware. Unfortunately you can't rely on others to give you clinical advice entirely. We are just people trying to work this out too so whilst we can share info between us there is no guarantee of the validity of said info. Therefore it is important to provide factual sources where possible and remember that there is always some risk involved with any of this stuff. It's scary for all of us and we would all like somebody to guide us through it step by step but without going to an assisted suicide organisation we're unlikely to receive that and will have to decide on an individual basis if we can make peace with the risks involved. It's a lot to carry on anybodies shoulders but it's the unfortunate situation we find ourselves in.
@Smart No More it's so true, all that you say. It is so unfortunate for us all. I have the alternate method Nitrogen with hood and final exit assistance. Though I'd prefer N I just don't know if I should take the chance as failure is not an option for me.
 
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Smart No More

Arcanist
May 5, 2021
461
@Butterflyfree Do you have a link for info on the man that went to Switzerland and took 24hr+ and appeared to suffer?

I'm really curious about that instance and what kind of suffering they referred to. I have heard and seen instances where people would snore loudly or appear a bit partched in the initial stage whilst falling asleep but nothing that indicated any real suffering. There was one guy that had a termonal illness (cancer I think) and spent all his time in bed as a result but held on for as long has he could for his family. He told them about his plans and they were onboard with it. He told them to drink and be happy during his ctb and they tried to go along with his wishes but obviously struggled due to their love for him. He took some time to pass and there was a doctor on hand that, when interviewed about it explained that the dose he took may not have been high enough however it eventually was. The guy was in bed snoring and breathing sort of heavily. He looked a bit grey but didn't appear to be suffering. You might say it was clear there was a kind of battle occuring in his body but that sounds worse than it actually appeared. Plus he was very ill so it would make sense anyway. It was a video documentary but I forget who the presenter was. It may have been Terry Pratchet. If you haven't seen the documentary you may be able to find it on youtube or vimeo. Just search 'Terry pratchet assisted suicide'. There are a few videos on assisted suicide knocking around. Mr Peter Smedley is in the Pratchet documentary too.

If you can offer any info on finding the account of the man who took over 24hrs that would be appreciated.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
@Butterflyfree Do you have a link for info on the man that went to Switzerland and took 24hr+ and appeared to suffer?


If you are taking about the person who fell into a coma before they died, they did not suffer. It was one of the few if not only documented case of clinical administration of N taking this long. People really need to stop spreading misinformation and rumors.
 
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Smart No More

Arcanist
May 5, 2021
461
If you are taking about the person who fell into a coma before they died, they did not suffer. It was one of the few if not only documented case of clinical administration of N taking this long. People really need to stop spreading misinformation and rumors.
I was just referring to a previous post made my butterflyfree regarding somebody who took a long time. I don't know the details and wanted to see it for myself. I was also trying to tactfully hint at providing proof of accounts of such instances without being inflammatory.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
I was just referring to a previous post made my butterflyfree regarding somebody who took a long time. I don't know the details and wanted to see it for myself. I was also trying to tactfully hint at providing proof of accounts of such instances without being inflammatory.

I was not referring to you. I was talking about this false claim by the other person. I understand being tactful but this isn't the first time this user has done something like this. Misinformation need to be stopped right away before it spreads uncontrollably.

Unless they can provide more evidence I am fairly certain they are referring to the case of a person who was in a coma for 24+ hours before finally passing. But this seems like a very rare scenario akin to people surviving jumps from airplanes without a chute.
 
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Smart No More

Arcanist
May 5, 2021
461
No, I knew you weren't referring to me. Didn't mean to come across that way.
 
Butterflyfree

Butterflyfree

Student
Oct 10, 2021
128
@Butterflyfree Do you have a link for info on the man that went to Switzerland and took 24hr+ and appeared to suffer?

I'm really curious about that instance and what kind of suffering they referred to. I have heard and seen instances where people would snore loudly or appear a bit partched in the initial stage whilst falling asleep but nothing that indicated any real suffering. There was one guy that had a termonal illness (cancer I think) and spent all his time in bed as a result but held on for as long has he could for his family. He told them about his plans and they were onboard with it. He told them to drink and be happy during his ctb and they tried to go along with his wishes but obviously struggled due to their love for him. He took some time to pass and there was a doctor on hand that, when interviewed about it explained that the dose he took may not have been high enough however it eventually was. The guy was in bed snoring and breathing sort of heavily. He looked a bit grey but didn't appear to be suffering. You might say it was clear there was a kind of battle occuring in his body but that sounds worse than it actually appeared. Plus he was very ill so it would make sense anyway. It was a video documentary but I forget who the presenter was. It may have been Terry Pratchet. If you haven't seen the documentary you may be able to find it on youtube or vimeo. Just search 'Terry pratchet assisted suicide'. There are a few videos on assisted suicide knocking around. Mr Peter Smedley is in the Pratchet documentary too.

If you can offer any info on finding the account of the man who took over 24hrs that would be appreciated.
No I don't have a link to it. I read this article on one of the right to die death with dignity FB groups I was a member of at one time.
@Butterflyfree Do you have a link for info on the man that went to Switzerland and took 24hr+ and appeared to suffer?

I'm really curious about that instance and what kind of suffering they referred to. I have heard and seen instances where people would snore loudly or appear a bit partched in the initial stage whilst falling asleep but nothing that indicated any real suffering. There was one guy that had a termonal illness (cancer I think) and spent all his time in bed as a result but held on for as long has he could for his family. He told them about his plans and they were onboard with it. He told them to drink and be happy during his ctb and they tried to go along with his wishes but obviously struggled due to their love for him. He took some time to pass and there was a doctor on hand that, when interviewed about it explained that the dose he took may not have been high enough however it eventually was. The guy was in bed snoring and breathing sort of heavily. He looked a bit grey but didn't appear to be suffering. You might say it was clear there was a kind of battle occuring in his body but that sounds worse than it actually appeared. Plus he was very ill so it would make sense anyway. It was a video documentary but I forget who the presenter was. It may have been Terry Pratchet. If you haven't seen the documentary you may be able to find it on youtube or vimeo. Just search 'Terry pratchet assisted suicide'. There are a few videos on assisted suicide knocking around. Mr Peter Smedley is in the Pratchet documentary too.

If you can offer any info on finding the account of the man who took over 24hrs that would be appreciated.
You'll have to join the fb right to die dignified death activist groups and you'll see plenty of articles such as the one I spoke of.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
No, I knew you weren't referring to me. Didn't mean to come across that way.

This is the closest thing I've found.


Person took 13g of N but his body was found right away. He was given naloxone and transferred to the intensive care unit. After 6 days of treatment he was brought back to normal. He suffered no lasting damages since barbiturates have neural protective properties.

Not being found for at least a few hours, ideally an entire day seems to be a good rule to follow. Also the doctors had no clue what he overdosed on initially since N is so rare.