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Circles

Circles

There's a difference between existing and living.
Sep 3, 2018
1,723
Seriously it just comes off as condescending and shallow to me. Like it’s just another cliche that normal people throw out there as shallow advice. I’m just having a fucking hard time understanding what the hell they even mean. Like I get that you got to accept yourself to some degree and work on yourself, blah blah blah, but loving yourself? How in the fuck is that even possible? It just feels like the whole thing is like looking in the mirror and tell yourself I love you or something. For some reason I get very defensive about this cause it just seems like it’s not even possible of doing. Like self love is not the same as how you’re able to love others. Fucking hell.

What do you think?
 
Sherri

Sherri

Archangel
Sep 28, 2020
8,335
Yup pretty much, I was a mess when depression hit hard, I would have to drag myself even to take a shower, eat and leave the house. Took a lot of effort and therapy so I could look In the mirror and do something simple as exfoliate my skin for example. I don’t like mirrors.
 
AverageFanEnjoyer

AverageFanEnjoyer

The Hated One
Sep 26, 2021
1,939
buddy, let m,e tell you. I've been on the other side. I used to love myself. I was the opposite of what I am now. Did it help me in the slightest? Nope. When they say ''love yourself so that others can love you'' they just repeat shit without thinking like parrots. It doesn't depend on loving yourself, but on OUTSIDE FACTORS.
 
Mr2005

Mr2005

Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
Sep 25, 2018
3,376
Loving yourself makes you more competitive in this dog eat dog world. Hating yourself probably makes you a better person. Or a serial killer
 
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
16,321
It’s admittedly very challenging for me to separate practicing self-love with being too cocky, selfish, and arrogant. I’m sure some people can manage but to me whenever the thought of showing even a drop of kindness towards myself I feel like just another selfish asshole who’s making the world a worse place for everyone else. Not that I need to love myself to still be that way, because I am, but the thought of showing any kindness towards myself still fills me with dread.
 
OrcWitch

OrcWitch

Mage
Sep 3, 2021
538
I'm going to play devil's advocate for "love yourself".

Personally I think it's worthless as advice to give another person, worst case it just makes the problem worse and at best comes across as "live laugh love!".

Growing up in an abusive environment as a kid, I was never complimented or shown affection. Me and my sisters were only taught anger and fear in our upbringing and weren't given positive attention. To me "loving yourself" is somehow undoing all that which effected us on an instinctive level. There are these core beliefs we have about ourselves and a person who was raised in a healthy loving environment will believe "I am loved, I belong, I am capable, I am noticed, I am important" in their subconscious. I think loving yourself is to develop those internal beliefs of "I am loved, I belong, I am important" until they're at the level of a person who had a healthy childhood.

To me this is what "love yourself" means. I think when someone goes "Ya need to love yourself!", they're presenting a thousands of hours long emotional healing process as simple piece of advice. I think they read the importance of loving oneself in a mental health article and started trying to prescribe it to people.
 
CozyTime

CozyTime

Death should be a free choice
Feb 16, 2019
33
I agree, I always found the thought of self love to be impossible and I certainly still haven't reached it but what I started from was the idea that I wanted to be a person that I could respect. For when the time comes I could look at my life and say contently that I would not undo anything.

It took me years of thinking and trying but I have reached it, the ability to look myself in the mirror every night and think "I respect this person"

Thats probably the closest I'll ever get to self love but it has helped me give a reason to treat myself slightly better than ever before which in my eyes have been a huge step. Thoughts of suicide are all there but atleast I'm on a basic level content, the self hatred is strong but I finally have a proper counter-argument to it.

Don't know if that makes much sense but I hope it did and wish you the best in finding what you're looking for, if thats self love or something else.
 
little helpers

little helpers

did I tie the tourniquet on my arm or on my neck?
Dec 14, 2021
522
this was brought up on the CPTSD thread. check it out. (‘kay, this is it)

as to your question, I *strongly* believe that healing with complex trauma *has* to come interpersonally. as an essential part of it. besides self-reflection and therapy stuff and psychoeducation. safety is not a given. it’s given by others and what we can also give to them. that’s what I always say. I swear by it. cuz when you think about it, you can’t *really* just go love yourself. especially when we have no idea how to do it right. when we never been taught that. all of our lives. love, by definition, is interpersonal. I’ve had too much experience where the *unconditional* love from another person deeply moved me. *unconditional*. when you can’t love yourself unconditionally yet, inner critic thing, you do need someone else to give you that. that’s what I think.

[…] you hear the rhetoric being repeated ’love yourself’. My first reaction to that is disgust. The second one is ‘what a logical fallacy’ - to extend love to yourself is implying that the first self that asked for love is somehow different. Then I feel the hypocrisy - very words they actually mean by the idea of loving yourself above others is only when it’s pictured through their principles of needing to be a human doing and not human loving - a narcissistic way and fits in with exactly what Instagram addicts and the ‘good’ guys believe. they just want to dose us up on meds because the ‘sick‘ have always been hurt by the parents, abandoned and then lied to.
 
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Hass

Hass

Global Mod
Sep 18, 2018
1,064
somewhat.

problem is, people that are unable to love themselves seek out others that can fill that void for them. so instead of learning or trying to navigate through the obstacles of loving yourself, they're left chasing people to do it for them all their life.

and even when they find a person to do what they can't do for themselves, other insecurities seep in and have the ability to destroy the relationship.

and it's something i'm familiar with sadly. the thought of loving myself is disgusting and makes me want to vomit. so instead, i've chased people all my life to do what i can't for myself. and even when i've found a person thats special and willing to do so, my other insecurities seep in to destroy the bond.

unfortunately, you can't love others truly without being able to love yourself. you can try your hardest, but it's difficult.

andddd at some point you become me and accept that you aren't loveable and give a strong F U to love.
 
Chaestergram

Chaestergram

Free spirit
Nov 24, 2021
82
It is indeed possible and no matter what it is needed as people accomplish far more when they are confident in themselves than those with low confidence since they are the one who’s going to think like « I will do this, wear this, say that once I achieve this or that », they tend to put things to later on, envy others and all type of negative stuff that they won’t even work toward while when you are confident you just do and you know you can achieve anything by yourself since you have the confident for it, you won’t give a fuck if you are single, have no friends or else cause you will be all you need and just be shining and feel good in your own body.
 
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GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

FUBAR
Jan 26, 2021
5,171
I think that loving yourself seems like an end result rather than an action. Sort of like the "be confident" thing.

Since people are retarded, they'll say "be confident" or "love yourself" as a result of not understanding how things come about in their lives. "I was confident when I asked for a raise, and I got it.", "I loved myself before choosing my 7th life partner, and our relationship lasted for an entire year." What they don't think about is why they happened to be in that state of mind.
 
Xeroornothing

Xeroornothing

Global Mod “Ye shall be as gods..🐍🍎”
Jun 22, 2021
2,091
I think that loving yourself seems like an end result rather than an action. Sort of like the "be confident" thing.

Since people are retarded, they'll say "be confident" or "love yourself" as a result of not understanding how things come about in their lives. "I was confident when I asked for a raise, and I got it.", "I loved myself before choosing my 7th life partner, and our relationship lasted for an entire year." What they don't think about is why they happened to be in that state of mind.
I second this opinion. Self love is a result rather than a cause. However that does not mean we cant do things within our control to increase the chances of being in state of self love and thats not by faking it simply. In normal human psychology, certain known behaviours improves self esteem and others work to reduce it. Behaviours like lying, cheating, abusing are known to reduce self esteem while cooperating, utilising skills and talents, volunteering help are boosters of self esteem.
Self esteem is self love after all imo.
I recommend reading the 6 pillars of self esteem is such a good read
 
GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

FUBAR
Jan 26, 2021
5,171
However that does not mean we cant do things within our control to increase the chances of being in state of self love and thats not by faking it simply.
And what is the difference between one who does and one who doesn't, then? What causes people to do do things that increases their self-esteem? What makes them want more self-esteem?
 
needed_

needed_

waiting for a miracle
Dec 17, 2021
718
to love myself for me means something like really I can't trust anyone else in the world so if there's one true ally then it's myself. it doesn't mean I'm always happy with myself, I'm certainly not, but if everyone else is being shitty to me I tell myself hey I don't need them, I have myself. (doesn't always work)
 
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Xeroornothing

Xeroornothing

Global Mod “Ye shall be as gods..🐍🍎”
Jun 22, 2021
2,091
And what is the difference between one who does and one who doesn't, then?
I didnt understand this part of your question
What causes people to do do things that increases their self-esteem? What makes them want more self-esteem?
It is a chicken-egg-came-first type of situation. Meaning if we were given things outside of our control to have high self esteem from the beginning then we are more likely to naturally engage in behaviours that boost our self esteem. That also means when we are not given the things outside of our control to have high self esteem from the beginning, it is not a death sentence completely. Self esteem can be nurtured and improved from its baseline almost always but all of that is limited by other uncontrollable factors.

Edit: for me, masturbation is a big self esteem diminsher. I am not nearly an addict but my sex drive went down drastically in recent time so it helped me to manage it better. Also self hygiene is important as well as daily praying to higher power imo
 
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ColorlessTrees

ColorlessTrees

Member
Jan 4, 2022
18
It’s another platitude. An especially grating one, because it’s always watered down. “Just love yourself! Show yourself some more compassion! Treat yourself like you’d treat a friend!”, if they even go that far, with no mention as to how. This is why my therapist irritates me; I intend on throwing in the towel soon. It’s been over a year of this, to paraphrase, “you’re just too hard on yourself” bullshit.

I think it’s a bit better to advocate for neutrality towards the self. It feels more attainable than love, personally (read: unattainable.) I don’t understand why people don’t start there, though. Things have to happen in steps, yet even mental health professionals are starting at the very top: so-called “self love”.

Also, the whole “you have to love yourself before you can be loved” is misleading. Perhaps I’m just being pedantic, but you can give and receive love all while hating yourself. You’re still human, after all. Does it apply to familial and platonic relationships, too? That line just irritates me.
 
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T

timf

Wizard
Mar 26, 2020
615
The "love yourself" advice is usually given by well-intentioned people to others they see as feeling bad about themselves.

People can feel bad about themselves because they have done or said something that they should feel bad about. The shame and guilt can help them try to fix things and motivate them to do better. Most move on and after what is useful is extracted from shame and guilt, it fades into the past.

Some people hang on to shame and guilt or even fabricate it for unhealthy purposes. It is often to these people that the advice to "love yourself" is given. While perhaps well meant, this advice is difficult to actually follow. This is because it does not address the complexity of "bad feelings". It would be beneficial for someone being told to "love himself" to translate it into, "I hope you feel better".
 
LADY007

LADY007

Experienced
Feb 25, 2020
252
Seriously it just comes off as condescending and shallow to me. Like it’s just another cliche that normal people throw out there as shallow advice. I’m just having a fucking hard time understanding what the hell they even mean. Like I get that you got to accept yourself to some degree and work on yourself, blah blah blah, but loving yourself? How in the fuck is that even possible? It just feels like the whole thing is like looking in the mirror and tell yourself I love you or something. For some reason I get very defensive about this cause it just seems like it’s not even possible of doing. Like self love is not the same as how you’re able to love others. Fucking hell.

What do you think?
I think the search for self-love comes, POSSIBLY, from the knowledge that someone hurt you deeply and you need to FORGIVE THEM. Somewhere in the history of your life, something was done, said, implied, conveyed with a dirty look, etc. that made you feel BAD about yourself...and you were not old enough to question it or understand where it was coming from.. That feeling of "being bad" has rattled around in your subconscious wreaking havoc and causing self-doubt and sorrow. It could of been from someone being jealous of you and saying something that was untrue. Forgiveness sounds wimpy but it is very, very crucial to your making peace with yourself.
 
t-rex

t-rex

Member
Jan 8, 2022
54
I don't think it's empty words—self-love is a real thing that is achievable. I've experienced it, although not very much lately. I think it takes practice, or a drug experience.

By practice I mean a meditation practice like loving-kindness, where you sit and emanate love outwards to all living beings, including yourself. The traditional way to do this in Asia is to start with yourself, then people close to you, then neutral people, then eventually enemies. As the feeling grows throughout the meditation, it's like getting a roaring fire started. You cannot start that fire with enemies, because they are like wet logs. They won't burn on a tiny fire. But once it is roaring, they will go right up.

In the West, the way loving-kindness meditation is taught is usually by moving yourself to the end of the queue. It's no secret that Westerners have problems with self-love. So start with your best friend, or your pet, or any being it's easy to have warm feelings for. Then progress to other beings and finally throw yourself in at the end when the feeling is strong.

It can be hard when the pilot light of loving-kindness has gone out, i.e. you feel dead inside. When that happens to me I get tempted to have a drug experience, e.g. mushrooms, ketamine, etc, to re-light the light. It doesn't always work but sometimes it does.

I agree with you that well-meaning people deploy the advice "just love yourself" too breezily. But I think they do mean well, and it is possible with some practice. Best wishes to you.
 
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little helpers

little helpers

did I tie the tourniquet on my arm or on my neck?
Dec 14, 2021
522
I think that loving yourself seems like an end result rather than an action. Sort of like the "be confident" thing. […] they'll say "be confident" or "love yourself" as a result of not understanding how things come about in their lives. "I was confident when I asked for a raise, and I got it.", "I loved myself before choosing my 7th life partner, and our relationship lasted for an entire year." What they don't think about is why they happened to be in that state of mind.

I second, third, and fourth that. which, IMO, is also what @CozyTime is saying, and I’d say the same. family loved kid, kid carries that with them. an end result rather than an action. humans can’t just pull attachment bonds out of thin air. the only time they do, it’s called DID. yeah, now that’s more than one person.

also to copy-paste myself from on another thread:
I find the “love yourself” shit degrading even, cuz that’s just others’ excuse to distance themselves from us. to ask us be “self-sufficient” when we’re doing all that we can to reach out for help. to get us stfu when we deserve love and caring from another person.

so like I have the very same feeling towards this rhetoric as @needed_.

Self-love? Sometimes it's possible to realize that it's not your fault you're flawed & learn to hate yourself a little less. :ahhha:

agreed. also think about this, what should a person do if they’re not “loving themself” enough? doesn’t *that* get them into self-blame even more? like “duh, I hate myself for not loving myself”. and the irony is you look around any social media and, man, people really *are* feeling guilty for not “loving themselves”. just, c’mon, wtf is this self-defeating prophecy? can we please ask ourselves *who* invented this shit *in the first place*?

duh. I feel duh. that’s all I got to say.
 
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Slaanesh

Slaanesh

Memento mori
Oct 23, 2019
25
I think it's worth noting how many of the people telling you to "love yourself" are often coming at it from a very lucky position.

It's easy to tell someone to "just work harder" when you were raised into wealth, and it's easy to tell someone to "just be themselves" when they were born naturally attractive.
 
motel rooms

motel rooms

So sodomitic.
Apr 13, 2021
5,947
Growing up in an abusive environment as a kid, I was never complimented or shown affection. Me and my sisters were only taught anger and fear in our upbringing and weren't given positive attention. To me "loving yourself" is somehow undoing all that which effected us on an instinctive level. There are these core beliefs we have about ourselves and a person who was raised in a healthy loving environment will believe "I am loved, I belong, I am capable, I am noticed, I am important" in their subconscious. I think loving yourself is to develop those internal beliefs of "I am loved, I belong, I am important" until they're at the level of a person who had a healthy childhood.

To me this is what "love yourself" means. I think when someone goes "Ya need to love yourself!", they're presenting a thousands of hours long emotional healing process as simple piece of advice.

You couldn't be more right, but it's extremely hard to undo the damage done to us abused folks in our formative years. It's a never-ending process of emotional healing that requires enormous amounts of patience & determination. It also probably can't be done terribly successfully without concrete help from patient, loving human beings. A couple of hours of lovemaking/intimacy is worth a couple of hundred therapy sessions.
 
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OrcWitch

OrcWitch

Mage
Sep 3, 2021
538
It's a never-ending process of emotional healing that requires enormous amounts of patience & determination. It also probably can't be done terribly successfully without concrete help from patient, loving human beings.
Yeah I agree with you here and with the others in this thread who have said it takes another person. "No man is an island" as they say. Life is pretty harsh and unfair with how not everyone who needs that love can get it.
 
T

TheBestUsernameEver

Member
Dec 26, 2021
81
Seriously it just comes off as condescending and shallow to me. Like it’s just another cliche that normal people throw out there as shallow advice. I’m just having a fucking hard time understanding what the hell they even mean. Like I get that you got to accept yourself to some degree and work on yourself, blah blah blah, but loving yourself? How in the fuck is that even possible? It just feels like the whole thing is like looking in the mirror and tell yourself I love you or something. For some reason I get very defensive about this cause it just seems like it’s not even possible of doing. Like self love is not the same as how you’re able to love others. Fucking hell.

What do you think?
Loving yourself in this context isn't the same as narcissism or anything like that.
It's about getting to know yourself, what works for you, and accepting rather than criticising yourself for your imperfections.
 
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Jeko

Jeko

Member
Jul 21, 2018
15
I do think it's bullsh1t.
I have some personal stuff that people/and the post-modern society sometimes say that I should learn to embrace and love.
I can't agree, I can't see the point and I can't see how.
 
L

lear

Member
Jan 2, 2022
12
I think it's legitimate advice that some people will find near-impossible to action. Given that we're the ones on this site, we are that 'some.'

There was an old Twitter post about someone talking to their doctor. It went something like this:

'Have you been experiencing any depressive moods or suicidal thoughts?'

'Don't we all?'

'No.'

We're not all built the same.
 
catloaf

catloaf

Specialist
Aug 14, 2021
362
I love myself, but still want to go. My physical struggles are out of my control and it's pointless to hate myself.
Loving yourself doesn't mean that you want to kiss your reflection in the mirror. It's about self-respect, knowing your value. At least for me, self love is telling 'no' to people when needed, taking a rest without being ashamed I'm wasting time and not running away from my feelings.
 
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R

ritaline

Member
Dec 14, 2021
5
Most of the time it's a bullshit advice from people that never thought of the subject for more than 5 minutes. Most of them never had a mental issue and some of them were lucky to somehow flip into happiness mode and now they're preaching about how good life is after being depressed