wishicouldgoback

wishicouldgoback

Member
Dec 30, 2020
44
What do you guys think about this? Apparently, there is no scientific evidence that any of what psychiatry claims is true?



It’s definitely something to consider.. I guess just telling us to take probiotics and anti-inflammatory supplements wouldn’t be as profitable?
 
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Secrets1

Specialist
Nov 18, 2019
312
Didn’t bother to watch, titles are self explanatory. There is a lot of truths in those videos. Probably plenty of falsehoods too since there is scientific evidence that some of what psychiatry claims is true.

Interesting claim because we know much less about the gut-brain axis than the brain itself and related problems.

Takeaway: science is biased as fuck and all these people have additional motives related to career advancement and research $. A lot of these things add a piece to the puzzle but are also infomercials.
 
Good4Nothing

Good4Nothing

Unlovable
May 8, 2020
1,865
I'm not going to watch all those videos, but I'm 100% confident my mental issues are a product of a childhood (and subsequent lifetime) of emotional and psychological abuse. My brain would be just fine if I had been treated with a little goddamn respect.
 
N

noaccount

Paragon
Oct 26, 2019
944
While psychiatry IS pretty fake,

in that psychiatry's explanations are often pseudo-scientific even if the drugs work for some people,

(and we could have those drugs without psychiatry, without prescribers!)

Mental illness is not "really" one-other-thing-instead

"mental illness" is just a subjective label for any way of thinking / feeling / acting that the ruling-class disagrees with.

What they call illness, may or may not overlap with what WE identify as our own mental DISTRESS that we want treatment for.

We may need to treat our distress with nutritional changes, or with drugs, or with interrupting cycles of child abuse and finding allies in the struggle against the oppression of the disabled, or through palliative care and accepting that there's no quick fix, or sometimes through CTB,

but none of this means our suffering or trauma is a disease-per-se,

and we would do well to keep in mind that what gatekeepers call "mental illness" may be our healthiest behaviors and our greatest strengths -

leading civil rights organizers were often called schizophrenic, and children are often psychiatrized for speaking out and defending themselves from mistreatment.
 
wishicouldgoback

wishicouldgoback

Member
Dec 30, 2020
44
I hope it helps someone who gets treated with these toxic drugs before it’s too late. Psychiatry first labeled me with minor depression, than bipolar, and finally with delusional disorder when I told them it was fake. These people are evil! Please do some research and go down the rabbit hole before you become their guinea pig. The science says that treating the gut is the best way to treat depression and anxiety. Ninety percent of serotonin is produced in the gut!
 
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Secrets1

Specialist
Nov 18, 2019
312
I hope it helps someone who gets treated with these toxic drugs before it’s too late. Psychiatry first labeled me with minor depression, than bipolar, and finally with delusional disorder when I told them it was fake. These people are evil! Please do some research and go down the rabbit hole before you become their guinea pig. The science says that treating the gut is the best way to treat depression and anxiety. Ninety percent of serotonin is produced in the gut!
I feel your overall sentiment 100%. Quacks have fucked me up over dispensing meds too.

Not trying to be a dick, lately not sure I know how to avoid... sorry! Last I heard it wasn’t even close to mapped out. Here’s an article from one of the more progressive healthcare institutions in america on it. So before we start endorsing this as a target treatment with priority over the brain wouldn’t it make sense to understand more about the biochemistry? As far as our medical knowledge goes this rabbit hole is hella deeper than the brain. Based on how neurons are transmitted, signals sent to control our body (action potential), it’d be logical to target the brain. Also more to happiness and a healthy brain than serotonin. Even so, i agree there’s tons of promise to this phenomenon. Skeptical about how much we’ll live to experience it, CTB or not.

 
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Life sucks

Visionary
Apr 18, 2018
2,138
Life problems including mental illnesses could be explained by thermodynamics and entropy. The external factors like traumas damages the internal system and the energy/heat flow becomes a mess. I observed myself for long years and noticed the heat variables. For example, Anhedonia worsens with heat. Its not simply brain inflammation but it could be explained with thermodynamics.
 
UpandDownPrincess

UpandDownPrincess

Warlock
Dec 31, 2019
773
It doesn't matter for me. The drug combo that I take now works well for me.

It's not perfect (I did find this place, after all) but it slows me down enough to catch my thoughts and actions before I take a dirt nap.

I believe that some predisposition was triggered by my awful childhood and toxic family, but the cause is nothing to spend too much time on at this point. What matters is that I'm feeling decent. Not 'normal' whatever that is, but good enough to get up most mornings.

Most of these folks pushing the brain/gut barrier stuff are selling some kind of "nutritionals" "micronutrients" or the like. I'll be much more likely to believe anyone who isn't reaching out a hand to take my money. That, for my mind, makes them no different than the drug companies.
 
muffin222

muffin222

Enlightened
Mar 31, 2020
1,188
I don't know about that. I agree that drugs are horrendously over-prescribed, especially to treat depression, but there are cases where drugs are the only solution that helps certain people attain a level of functionality.

We don't have enough knowledge of the brain and mental illness at this time to fully understand why certain people seem to require medication to function and why others can be cured of their depression through lifestyle choices such as diet, exercise, etc.

Sweeping statements like "psychiatry is fake" offer little value in helping us to understand mental illness and the various nuances of treatment. I also disagree that reducing inflammation is a sure-fire cure for depression and mental illness.

I eat a very healthy diet comprised almost entirely of organic foods, eat Greek yoghurt full of probiotics almost everyday, fast, avidly avoid alcohol and processed foods, and have eliminated sugary foods and sweets from my diet entirely. Yet, I still struggle to get out of bed most days and still suffer from bouts of deep depression.

If inflammation was the root cause of my depression, then my diet alone should have squashed it by now. Yet, I still struggle continuously with poor mental health. The issue is far from black and white.
 
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hellodarkness

Member
Dec 8, 2020
92
So as a schizophrenic nutritionist I have a lot of feelings on this. On one hand, my condition is managed at its best in ketosis. On the other, no dietary plan is going to change the reality that I hear and see things that are not there- only medications can do that.

Overall, I think the message of let food be thy medicine is an important one to heed, but it’s an oversimplification for advanced conditions. Psychopharmacology is used often in cases where it shouldn’t necessarily be used because lifestyle factors are not being addressed first (especially in terms of depression and anxiety), and for those people I think this messaging is important.

For my fellow schizophrenics, schizoaffectives, bipolar disorder sufferers, etc. I think we’re better off embracing both nutrition and medicine. All the kale in the world is not going to make the voices stop. Survive in the most intelligent way possible, which usually means deferring your medication decisions to a sane doctor type person.

tl;dr- some bitch on the Internet has feelings, salad, and a lot of medication.
 
signifying nothing

signifying nothing

-
Sep 13, 2020
2,553
All the kale in the world is not going to make the voices stop.
I agree, these are complex, whole body (whole life?) problems and need to be treated as such by utilising a range of different approaches.

The other problem is there's no one professional that could cover all aspects that might need to be involved, so you have to prioritise based on what you think would be most helpful.

Or otherwise try to read and learn for yourself about the different things that might help. But that takes time and energy, whereas swallowing a pill someone gives you is quick and easy.
 
T

TooConscious

Paragon
Sep 16, 2020
926
I think most people who claim to KNOW things on such a sensitive issue are twats.
Only the universe can know. If that.
 
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Deleted member 14573

.
Feb 2, 2020
228
I don't know about that. I agree that drugs are horrendously over-prescribed, especially to treat depression, but there are cases where drugs are the only solution that helps certain people attain a level of functionality.

We don't have enough knowledge of the brain and mental illness at this time to fully understand why certain people seem to require medication to function and why others can be cured of their depression through lifestyle choices such as diet, exercise, etc.

Sweeping statements like "psychiatry is fake" offer little value in helping us to understand mental illness and the various nuances of treatment. I also disagree that reducing inflammation is a sure-fire cure for depression and mental illness.

I eat a very healthy diet comprised almost entirely of organic foods, eat Greek yoghurt full of probiotics almost everyday, fast, avidly avoid alcohol and processed foods, and have eliminated sugary foods and sweets from my diet entirely. Yet, I still struggle to get out of bed most days and still suffer from bouts of deep depression.

If inflammation was the root cause of my depression, then my diet alone should have squashed it by now. Yet, I still struggle continuously with poor mental health. The issue is far from black and white.
This is a balanced perspective. Psychiatry is not fake but in a sort of dark age. There is so much about the brain that we do not know and we are dealing with illnesses that we cannot see.

My Grandmother was schizophrenic and her illness severely impaired her ability to function and put her kids in danger a few times. Her meds allowed her to do day-to-day tasks and stabilise her thoughts and moods. I also have my mental health issues but my treatment is just psychotherapy. I'm not cured by any means but it's helped me slowly improve, whereas meds could make things worse for me.

Like you I have a very healthy diet. I LOVE Greek & Lebanese yoghurt too and eat it with a lot of meals. No alcohol or cigarettes either. I exercise regularly too. And yet I'm still in this position.
 
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Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,923
I eat a very healthy diet comprised almost entirely of organic foods, eat Greek yoghurt full of probiotics almost everyday, fast, avidly avoid alcohol and processed foods, and have eliminated sugary foods and sweets from my diet entirely. Yet, I still struggle to get out of bed most days and still suffer from bouts of deep depression.
Honestly, I think it's complex and that complexity is something doctors don't want to admit. There are some serious MH issues that even having a really healthy life won't ameliorate, and for those, very often the only form of treatment are some serious medications.
However, there are also more nebulous MH issues that would probably benefit a great deal from the sort of regime you follow, especially if a decent amount of sunlight and exercise are added in.
And there are cases which fit in the middle of those two extremes, all along the spectrum.
Also, you can suffer both from a specifically difficult MH diagnosis AND have other circumstantial issues at the same time.
What doesn't work though imo, is a 'one size fits all' attitude that I've so often encountered by professionals.
So as a schizophrenic nutritionist I have a lot of feelings on this. On one hand, my condition is managed at its best in ketosis. On the other, no dietary plan is going to change the reality that I hear and see things that are not there- only medications can do that.

Overall, I think the message of let food be thy medicine is an important one to heed, but it’s an oversimplification for advanced conditions. Psychopharmacology is used often in cases where it shouldn’t necessarily be used because lifestyle factors are not being addressed first (especially in terms of depression and anxiety), and for those people I think this messaging is important.

For my fellow schizophrenics, schizoaffectives, bipolar disorder sufferers, etc. I think we’re better off embracing both nutrition and medicine. All the kale in the world is not going to make the voices stop. Survive in the most intelligent way possible, which usually means deferring your medication decisions to a sane doctor type person.

tl;dr- some bitch on the Internet has feelings, salad, and a lot of medication.
Sorry, I posted before I read your response. I think you said it well there.
 
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BitterlyAlive_

BitterlyAlive_

-
Dec 8, 2020
2,328
tl;dr- some bitch on the Internet has feelings, salad, and a lot of medication.
Best TLDR I've seen in a long time. Thanks for that.

I think @muffin222 summed up everything I was going to say. There's absolutely a connection between the brain and our gut biome, but that doesn't mean that eating healthy will alleviate mental illness. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much, but I went a whole year eating a keto diet. I didn't notice a change in my anxiety or depression. But there are many people who have seen relief from changing up their diet. Humans are complex, the underlying cause for mental illness is usually multifaceted. Changing your diet is a very good step to take regardless, we consume so much garbage nowadays...
 
H

Hyperborean

Member
Dec 19, 2020
67
What do you guys think about this? Apparently, there is no scientific evidence that any of what psychiatry claims is true?



It’s definitely something to consider.. I guess just telling us to take probiotics and anti-inflammatory supplements wouldn’t be as profitable?

One of the videos is done by a notorious quack "Kelly brogan" is well known as being a gifting con artist. She also peddles a load of pseudoscience.


The thing with psychiatry is that it can be hard to find the right medication to treat the illness. My mum has paranoid schizophrenia, she's been on various different meds before they found one where it works for her. There's no one size fits all medication and we're still learning about the chemistry in the brain. It's something we still don't fully understand.

So the people calling it "pseudoscience" are pretty ignorant in their assertions. It's still very much an evolving science since we're still learning about the brain.
 
Deleted member 94

Deleted member 94

Wizard
Mar 24, 2018
696
Didn’t bother to watch, titles are self explanatory. There is a lot of truths in those videos. Probably plenty of falsehoods too since there is scientific evidence that some of what psychiatry claims is true.

Interesting claim because we know much less about the gut-brain axis than the brain itself and related problems.

Takeaway: science is biased as fuck and all these people have additional motives related to career advancement and research $. A lot of these things add a piece to the puzzle but are also infomercials.
Not completely true I suffer from gut microbiome imbalance as well as inflammation. My mental health suffered after those surfaced so there is a link. I can vouch for that.
 
Wrennie

Wrennie

-
Dec 18, 2019
1,560
Psychiatry is disgusting and does infinitely more harm than good. While I’m not sure as to whether brain inflammation is the cause of all mental illness, encephalitis was 100% the cause of mine. It took a whopping 18 years for me to get a proper diagnosis though, because nobody entertained the idea that my behavioral problems could’ve had its roots in the physical.
 
M

MyStateKilledMe

Arcanist
Apr 23, 2020
448
I actually trust psychiatry. It's not any more perfect than physical health treatments, but at least it gives you drugs that produce fast results.

What I truly hate is psychotherapy. Therapists are the most rotten, filthy, heinous mental health practitioners. They pretend to be your friend and blow smoke up your ass, while siding against you (like with your parents or "society") and stabbing you in the back. Not only that, they deliberately withhold medications from you, and blame you for "not being patient enough to wait until you feel better in the long run" when you ask for them.

Therapists are also cringeworthy morons; I mean, really, they actually believe that sharing your feelings is a cure for everything, from mild struggles at work to a crippling depression. While a few things, like the Oedipus Complex, can be cured by talking, things like depression are caused by a chemical imbalance, not a "lack of sharing feelings". And yet, therapists don't know that! And when you decide to share your real feelings about your troubles, therapists either turn around and laugh at you, or pretend they don't know what you're talking about. They are literally garbage!
 
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Secrets1

Specialist
Nov 18, 2019
312
Not completely true I suffer from gut microbiome imbalance as well as inflammation. My mental health suffered after those surfaced so there is a link. I can vouch for that.
I agree there’s a link. Said based on title of videos there plenty of facts in there.
 
Deleted member 94

Deleted member 94

Wizard
Mar 24, 2018
696
I agree there’s a link. Said based on title of videos there plenty of facts in there.
When I receive my infusions in hospital they kick off the inflammation and my depression gets better, but comes back four weeks before my next infusion. Because the medicine dies down in my body. I have IBS.

Also what lifts my mood for an hour or so is having a huge count probiotic.
 
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TotallyIsolated

Mage
Nov 25, 2019
590
It also comes from people who want to feed their illness and not get better.
Indeed. I hate to point a finger because I'm pretty guilty of this myself tbh!

I think its to be expected at least to some degree that people will resist treatment and recovery because of all that these things would entail, but that is a challenge for each of us, not a failing in medical science.
 
demuic

demuic

Life was a mistake
Sep 12, 2020
1,371
I mean, yeah. There are many credible meta-studies which conclude that anti-depressants work slightly better than placebos. Here is an example, this study investigated the results of more than 500 studies on anti-depressants.

This so much.

But "clearly" these trials were just done on people who don't want to get better..........
 
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