Aponia & Ataraxia

Aponia & Ataraxia

Experienced
Jun 24, 2018
235
"Youth is the only thing worth having. When I find that I am growing old, I shall kill myself." -Oscar Wilde

It's not in the remembering, but in the forgetting which minimizes both: preference frustration, and, the need for preference satisfaction.
~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifrustrationism

If young now, one can choose to have a lived experience of dying a peaceful & pleasant death at a young age;
once old, one cannot choose to have had a lived experience of dying a peaceful & pleasant death at a young age.
~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specious_present

most humans want more chronological time (duration); No one wants more biological aging (erosion)

"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance." -Jean-Paul Sartre

Every existing thing is born without reason, p̶r̶o̶l̶o̶n̶g̶s̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶e̶l̶f̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶w̶e̶a̶k̶n̶e̶s̶s̶, and dies b̶y̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶.

"happily dreaming childhood, exultant youth, toil-filled years of manhood, infirm and often wretched old age, the torment of the last illness and finally the throes of death." -Arthur Schopenhauer

happily dreaming childhood, exultant youth, ̶t̶o̶i̶l̶-̶f̶i̶l̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶m̶a̶n̶h̶o̶o̶d̶,̶ ̶i̶n̶f̶i̶r̶m̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶t̶e̶n̶ ̶w̶r̶e̶t̶c̶h̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶a̶g̶e̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶r̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶l̶l̶n̶e̶s̶s̶, and f̶i̶n̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ death.
~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_line#World_lines_in_literature

In this view: nothing is worth the price of biological aging.


~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortality_salience

Disclaimer: As of 2018, I can only personally advocate these two methods --in alignment with the mission of Exit International ('A Peaceful Death is Everybody's Right')


(While a single 6 gram bottle may be effective for some elderly humans, the standard for most young or middle-aged humans is 12 grams)


nitrogen flow regulator: https://maxdogbrewing.com/

aluminum cylinders: https://www.prestacycle.com/product/prestacycle-6061-t6-aluminum-nitrogen-cylinders/

high-purity nitrogen: http://www.praxair.com/gases/buy-liquid-nitrogen-or-compressed-nitrogen-gas



 
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guildford91rs

Member
Jun 22, 2018
47
My favourite Arthur Schopenhauer quote is "They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice; that only a madman could be guilty of it; and other insipidities of the same kind; or else they make the nonsensical remark that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person."

And Nitrogen is definitely my first choice method, although I still need to decide on a date some point between now and my 30th birthday mid next year
 
Aponia & Ataraxia

Aponia & Ataraxia

Experienced
Jun 24, 2018
235
My favourite Arthur Schopenhauer quote is "They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice; that only a madman could be guilty of it; and other insipidities of the same kind; or else they make the nonsensical remark that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person."

And Nitrogen is definitely my first choice method, although I still need to decide on a date some point between now and my 30th birthday mid next year

I like that quote as well. Possibly my favorite of all the anti-human existence (we can easily imagine quite splendid alternative existences) philosophers is the obscure Carlo Michelstaedter (suicide, age 23) with his "die young" philosophy: "Resignation and adapting oneself to the world is the true death" (paraphrased).

Little over a decade ago (my mid-teens), I had planned to get off of 'time's train' before even middle-age. I unfortunately experienced haphazard depression (financial, betrayal, disillusionment) in these final months and now have countless reasons for my escape, although the primary reason remains: to evade/void/invalidate the massively negative effects of biological aging.

Regardless of how many humans exist within the 22nd & 23rd centuries, aging will be widely accepted as a disease in those eras (as is already the case with Silicon Valley in 2018).

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
 
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guildford91rs

Member
Jun 22, 2018
47
I like that quote as well. Possibly my favorite of all the anti-human existence (we can easily imagine quite splendid alternative existences) philosophers is the obscure Carlo Michelstaedter (suicide, age 23) with his "die young" philosophy: "Resignation and adapting oneself to the world is the true death" (paraphrased).

It was over a decade ago (my teens) that I planned to get off time's train before even middle-age. I unfortunately experienced haphazard depression (financial, betrayal, disillusionment) in these final months and now have countless reasons for my escape, although the primary reason remains: evasion of the massively negative effects of biological aging. Regardless of how many humans exist within the 22nd & 23rd centuries, aging will be widely accepted as a disease in those eras (as it already is in 2018 Silicon Valley).

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

I don't think I've come across Carlo Michelstaedter before but I do like that quote. As a scientist, I hate the idea of adapting to the world, we should be adapting the world to suit us!

Have to disagree with you about aging still being accepted as a disease in the 22nd and 23rd centuries. I think the work being done on longevity and SENS (strategies for engineered negligible senescence) will have shown that aging can be defeated and probably made large steps towards doing so by then.
 
Aponia & Ataraxia

Aponia & Ataraxia

Experienced
Jun 24, 2018
235
I don't think I've come across Carlo Michelstaedter before but I do like that quote. As a scientist, I hate the idea of adapting to the world, we should be adapting the world to suit us!

Have to disagree with you about aging still being accepted as a disease in the 22nd and 23rd centuries. I think the work being done on longevity and SENS (strategies for engineered negligible senescence) will have shown that aging can be defeated and probably made large steps towards doing so by then.

Oh haha, allow me to clarify: I meant that aging will be accepted as a disease to be treated or cured... rather than pretending (as the majority of humans in the present-day still continue to do) that aging isn't in fact a disease. It's painfully obvious that fully-operational anti-aging therapies would obviously substantially ameliorate the human predicament (unfortunately, I think it's likely the case that very initially, only the wealthy will be able to afford the therapies).

I don't think I've ever found someone who's psychology I directly relate to as much as Aubrey de Grey: philosophically, existentially, and psychologically equivalent on 99% of the critical questions. I simply wasn't born into the position (financial, academic, social network) to actually directly combat the ills of the world, like he [de Grey] has been able to.

As I say: godspeed to the beneficiaries of the peak or near-peak technological, moral/ethical, & sociocultural era of humanity (or post-humanity)... I certainly wish I had been one of them. Even if that proverbial cyberpunk semi-utopia is never fully actualized... the first half of the 21st century is still not my cup of tea, as this era is likely primitive if not savage by what will be a retrospective (a posteriori) comparison.
 
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guildford91rs

Member
Jun 22, 2018
47
Oh haha, allow me to clarify: I meant that aging will be accepted as a disease to be treated or cured... rather than pretending (as the majority of humans in the present-day still continue to do) that aging isn't in fact a disease. It's painfully obvious that fully-operational anti-aging therapies would obviously substantially ameliorate the human predicament (unfortunately, I think it's likely the case that very initially, only the wealthy will be able to afford the therapies).

I don't think I've ever found someone who's psychology I directly relate to as much as Aubrey de Grey: philosophically, existentially, and psychologically equivalent on 99% of the critical questions. I simply wasn't born into the position (financial, academic, social network) to actually directly combat the world's ills like he [de Grey] has been able to.

As I say: godspeed to the beneficiaries of the peak or near-peak technological, moral/ethical, & sociocultural era of humanity (or post-humanity)... I certainly wish I had been one of them. Even if that proverbial cyberpunk semi-utopia is never fully actualized... the first half of the 21st century is still not my cup of tea, as this era is likely primitive if not savage by what will be a retrospective (a posteriori) comparison.

Ah my apologies, I completely misunderstood your meaning! There's a short (well not that short) story that's really worth reading https://nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html if you haven't already read it. It's a fable that's basically about how people blindly accept that ageing is inevitable.

[EDIT] Have to say it is really very rare for me to come across someone else who know about Aubrey's works and also feels the same way about how this time is basically barbaric compared to what is technologically possible
 
Aponia & Ataraxia

Aponia & Ataraxia

Experienced
Jun 24, 2018
235
Ah my apologies, I completely misunderstood your meaning! There's a short (well not that short) story that's really worth reading https://nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html if you haven't already read it. It's a fable that's basically about how people blindly accept that ageing is inevitable.

[EDIT] Have to say it is really very rare for me to come across someone else who know about Aubrey's works and also feels the same way about how this time is basically barbaric compared to what is technologically possible

Same sentiments here, my friend :happy:. I indeed have read that essay. The Youtube channel: 'CGP Grey' created a heart-warming animation of Bostrom's essay not too long ago.
 
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guildford91rs

Member
Jun 22, 2018
47
Same sentiments here, my friend :happy:. I indeed have read that essay. The Youtube channel: 'CGP Grey' created a heart-warming animation of Bostrom's essay not too long ago.

I love CGP Grey's channel! He has so many interesting videos. I haven't actually seen his animation yet. I keep meaning too but always end up putting it off, probably because I've already read the essay.
 
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FroggMan

Member
May 8, 2018
35
Aubrey de Grey, SENS, people who actually realize how probably barbaric of a time were still living in, where have you been my brothers! There are handfulls of us, handfulls! Seriously though, not topics I expected to see here. Such niche things on such a niche forum.
 
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guildford91rs

Member
Jun 22, 2018
47
Aubrey de Grey, SENS, people who actually realize how probably barbaric of a time were still living in, where have you been my brothers! There are handfulls of us, handfulls! Seriously though, not topics I expected to see here. Such niche things on such a niche forum.

It's just such a shame the few people who are similar to me are scattered all around the world *sighs*
 
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Aponia & Ataraxia

Aponia & Ataraxia

Experienced
Jun 24, 2018
235
Aubrey de Grey, SENS, people who actually realize how probably barbaric of a time were still living in, where have you been my brothers! There are handfulls of us, handfulls! Seriously though, not topics I expected to see here. Such niche things on such a niche forum.

I'm going to echo a partial statement from one of Aubrey's talks at ideacity: "I cannot remember a time when I did not know these things" --on the self-evident nature negative utilitarianism and the status quo bias (the obviousness of biological aging being one of the most pressing issues of human life). David Pearce is probably one of my favorite philosophers in the realm of pure transhumanism philosophy. Peter Wessel Zapffe has to be my favorite though: because the only way to come close to invalidating Zapffe's view, is in fact the actualization of a transhuman/post-human world (for starters, the kind of enhancements that David Pearce talks about in his 'Hedonistic Imperative') --as far as reason and freethinking has taken me, at the apex of these combined perspectives more-or-less sits what I would call the most accurate representation of the human condition.

any reasonable conscious entity would almost have to be in favor of transhumanist technologies, as antinatalist philosopher David Benatar articulates:

"Among the advocates of human enhancement are those who envisage and welcome the prospect of a “post-human” future— a future in which humans have been so enhanced (physically, mentally, and morally) that they are no longer recognizably human. These advocates of trans-humanism think it is much more important to improve the quality of life than for the enhanced future beings to be human.

Although there are many who object to the wisdom and morality of seeking such enhancements, I am not among those categorically opposed to technological enhancements. If the choice is between a lower quality of life and a higher quality of life, the latter is preferable even if the enhanced beings with the better quality lives can no longer be categorized as humans. To be sure, any enhancements will need to be subject to the usual moral constraints. For example, enhancements that carry significant risks of causing serious harm might fall afoul of such constraints. And attention would need to be paid to fair access to enhancement technologies. None of this, however, rules out the transhumanist project." -David Benatar, 'The Human Predicament'

“If truth is what you seek, then the examined life will only take you on a long ride to the limits of solitude and leave you by the side of the road with your truth and nothing else.” --Thomas Ligotti
*well, it has brought me to at least a couple others who are more-or-less on the same page (^_^)