EricRoche

EricRoche

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Apr 7, 2018
75
Here are some reasons I can give for not believing in a God. I know many here are anxious about "What dreams may come" (according to Hamlet) after death and here are some of my opinions about why God can't exist.


1.) The unfairness/shittiness of existence - Just one look at this world, who rules it, who succeeds, who suffers and why that is the case should do it for you. Being good rarely gets you anywhere. Humans are deluded in the sense that we are simply extensions of this animal-eat-animal society yet think we are "enlightened". I was the bullied kid in school who teachers thought would eventually end up better than my bullies. Not the case, I had one bad moment and the police told me that if I did it again, I'd be going to prison (they cautioned me instead), meanwhile people in my school who fuck others over are still enjoying a good social circle. I tried and tried but was constantly fucked over.

Even if you succeed in this life, everyone still loses at the grave

2.) 'Good' events inconsistent with God's claims - Even ignoring the fact that there is suffering, an omnipotent and omnipresent God should be able to work some miracle that catches our attention. It doesn't have to bend the laws of physics but something along the lines of people with shitty parents suddenly having a complete personality overhaul. The fact that nothing even remotely miraculous happens to the vast majority (even Christians who pray), is proof that a God cannot exist. Where is all this power if not a SINGLE good random and unexplainable thing happens in someones life? I'm sure many of you can identify with this.

3.) Hypocrisy involving the afterlife - If an afterlife exists, then it's one more reason God is an evil ass. Not just because one is tormented for all of eternity for temporary sins but it shows how completely hypocritical God is. When God says in a blanket manner that suicidal people will go to hell, he's essentially saying that Jews who killed themselves to escape torture are going to hell, woman who is gang raped and then kills herself is going to hell, gay person who is kicked out is going to hell.

So God is completely absent from everyones life (bar the few Christians who claim to have a 'relationship' with him) saying that improving our life here on earth is our responsibility...but then when we decide not to be a part of this world- we have chosen to go to Hell because we ignored Gods "incredibly love" on this earth where he could have helped us?? Fuck that.​
 
M

Michel Angelo

Member
Jul 5, 2018
46
Funny you should mention "god." There's a rather popular theory that God's original popularity beginning in early Rome was a direct result of alienation, ie God, Jesus "who is always with you" etc. ameliorating the original days of then burgeoning capitalism and things being made by specialists, not everyone being generalists yada yada. When you think of it, it makes a lot of sense, how many people today have this idea of God to fill the hole in their heart - (i'm thinking of the sociological / marxist form of alienation here, subject/object, man leaving his whole ontology and now no more one with nature etc. etc.)

As far as "proof" - which God? Is what i always ask first. Jesus? Ja'weh? Muhammed? Buddha? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
 
Fylobatica

Fylobatica

Inactive
Apr 1, 2018
365
To me the main proof is the utter meaninglessness of the whole. Try asking whatever god you like why he's doing all of this and he will have a hard time in finding a valid answer.

"Oh, it's just for my entertainment" would be the most coherent one
 
Alysia

Alysia

Member
Jul 3, 2018
94
3.) Hypocrisy involving the afterlife
Indeed, so logical how the supposedly most merciful and well-meaning being in this universe would send people to eternal damnation of greatest imaginable suffering for sins we might do because we are only human (the capability of causing sin God specifically gave to us, because God supposedly valued giving us free will over preventing the 'sin' we might cause with it). Let alone giving us the capability to reason and realize it might not be very logical to believe in God after all.

You would think that not letting people come to heaven and instead just sending them to eternal nothingness, for example, would have been more reasonable and merciful and logical, but instead God chose eternal, maximal suffering with no chance for escape or apology. The logical inconsistency, to me, is just too great for it to make any sense.

Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_Hell
 
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Alysia

Alysia

Member
Jul 3, 2018
94
Another big one for me in general is the classic problem of evil, especially the existence of natural evil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_evil) in this world. Until I hear explanations to these issues that satisfy me, I can see no reason to believe in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient God.

There are plenty of other reasons for me personally as well, but these are the most significant ones to me I find.
 
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JSRF

JSRF

Student
May 30, 2018
134
Until I hear explanations to these issues that satisfy me, I can see no reason to believe in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient God.

The idea that god is good and merciful purely stems from humans. There's no reason to believe that, yet for some reason a lot of religions feel drawn to that idea. Personally I don't believe it either but it remains just that, a believe.
 
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Justanotherconsumer

Justanotherconsumer

Paragon
Jul 9, 2018
974
The bible is easily debunked expecially with the aid of the internet. For instance in the book of job all people go to the same place whether good or bad. It isn't until the new testament the concept of heaven and hell exists. Jewish rabbis don't believe in the existence of the devil or an afterlife. However I have had an out of body experience, so it is possible to have your consciousness separate from your body.
 
Fylobatica

Fylobatica

Inactive
Apr 1, 2018
365
so it is possible to have your consciousness separate from your body.

Not actually, your consciousness resides in your brain. When the vestibular system and the temporal areas in the brain are temporarily or permanently compromised, the sense of spatial awareness starts to jitter, resulting in a loss of balance and the sensation that we're located outside of our bodies
 
Justanotherconsumer

Justanotherconsumer

Paragon
Jul 9, 2018
974
Not actually, your consciousness resides in your brain. When the vestibular system and the temporal areas in the brain are temporarily or permanently compromised, the sense of spatial awareness starts to jitter, resulting in a loss of balance and the sensation that we're located outside of our bodies
It's not just a sensation as there is sight with no body rising upwards without ability to willfully change directions. It's a real experience, now whether or not it's just something that is just temporary I don't know. I verified it by checking to see if an orange piece of paper was there that I saw while out of body.
 
Fylobatica

Fylobatica

Inactive
Apr 1, 2018
365
's not just a sensation as there is sight with no body rising upwards without ability to willfully change directions. It's a real experience,

This does not make sense, since all experiences rely on our senses to be perceived by our brain.
now whether or not it's just something that is just temporary I don't know

it's obviously temporary. If it wasn't, we'd be hallucinating 24/7
 
Justanotherconsumer

Justanotherconsumer

Paragon
Jul 9, 2018
974
This does not make sense, since all experiences rely on our senses to be perceived by our brain.
Our brains could merely be a receptor for consciousness which is all that is required for experience. The body could be the hardware.

it's obviously temporary. If it wasn't, we'd be hallucinating 24/7
All I can tell you is that many thousands of people report having these experiences after clinical death. If consciousness continues after death it may well continue on forever.
 
Fylobatica

Fylobatica

Inactive
Apr 1, 2018
365
All I can tell you is that many thousands of people report having these experiences after clinical death. If consciousness continues after death it may well continue on forever.

Of course thousands of people have the same symptoms when an alteration to the temporoparietal area occurs, we're all sharing the same neural correlates.
Consciousness heavily relies on a functioning brain, it doesn't pop up from nothing. There's no way that something so sophisticated and deeply ingrained in our nervous system could float freely in the air, more so when our mental circuitry disrupts.
 
S

Seneca

Student
Jun 30, 2018
176
I swing between two views:

1. There is no god: the world is amoral, blind, and indifferent to the sufferings of its inhabitants; or

2. There is a god, who is actively immoral, malicious, and evil, and who especially delights in inflicting additional sufferings on those who have already been subjected to the worst circumstances.


Often I think hypothesis 2 is the better explanation. It better explains why torment is gathered up and inflicted disproportionately on vulnerable individuals who are already suffering, rather than according to a purely random and egalitarian distribution as hypothesis 1 would predict.
 
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Alysia

Alysia

Member
Jul 3, 2018
94
I swing between two views:

1. There is no god: the world is amoral, blind, and indifferent to the sufferings of its inhabitants; or

2. There is a god, who is actively immoral, malicious, and evil, and who especially delights in inflicting additional sufferings on those who have already been subjected to the worst circumstances.


Often I think hypothesis 2 is the better explanation. It better explains why torment is gathered up and inflicted disproportionately on vulnerable individuals who are already suffering, rather than according to a purely random and egalitarian distribution as hypothesis 1 would predict.
A very nice and deep insight, I definitely resonate with that a lot!

Reminded me of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_God_Challenge
 
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Fylobatica

Fylobatica

Inactive
Apr 1, 2018
365
2. There is a god, who is actively immoral, malicious, and evil, and who especially delights in inflicting additional sufferings on those who have already been subjected to the worst circumstances.

This can be attributed to the carelessness of the universe. It can't provide safety even for itself (5/7billion years from now it'll "die", or collapse under its own weight). Entropy does not need to be conscious to cause a mess.
Plus, I see an evil deity just as a prisoner of its own jokes. What does it do for eternity? Laughing at other beings' suffering? Doesn't seem quite godlike. It's just sad both for the perpetrator and the victims.
They say that indifference is the supreme form of 'hate', it can be partially regarded as true in this specific case.
 
P

Panda

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Jun 25, 2018
34
All I can tell you is that many thousands of people report having these experiences after clinical death. If consciousness continues after death it may well continue on forever.
I believe consciousness is born from the mind and does not magically leave it. If you come back from being clinically dead then I assume the brain will fill in that gap. The brain doesnt shut down completely when we sleep so it's not comparable, the brain has to fill in for a gap of basically not existing or functioning. It makes sense that this might bring pretty wondrous "experiences" which are actually just completely wrong and would never have been processed if death had continued.

What I'm saying is I don't believe the recalled experiences of people who have "died and come back" are necessarily indicative of truth because most people don't come back to process the experience consciously after the fact.
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

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Jun 17, 2018
1,364
I don't believe in any god and I don't understand why people believe there has to be one for there to be an after life. I think the after life is just another aspect of existence and it could even be explained scientifically in the far future with the multiverse hypothesis or Tom Campbell's LCS. it doesn't need demons, wars in heaven, new age or other mumbo jumbos.
 
MrNobody

MrNobody

Member
May 26, 2018
27
I think it doesn't take a genius to figure out that majority of The Bible is based on fictional metaphors, but perhaps many people misunderstand what it tries to say.

God is not an old man who sits on the clouds and dictates with a magic wand. God is a force or a state that makes up everything and can be found everywhere. It is a metaphor to represent the ultimate balance of all energy and matter. This state of everything neither supports anybody nor goes against anybody. It's simply there.
 
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P

Panda

-
Jun 25, 2018
34
I don't believe in any god and I don't understand why people believe there has to be one for there to be an after life. I think the after life is just another aspect of existence and it could even be explained scientifically in the far future with the multiverse hypothesis or Tom Campbell's LCS. it doesn't need demons, wars in heaven, new age or other mumbo jumbos.
String theory is pretty much plausible and, correct me if I'm wrong, that already pretty much delves into "the multiverse theory". I don't see how that would explain any form of life after death however. I truly don't believe there's any way your consciousness can be transferred out of your brain in any sense, of course I'd be interested to learn otherwise based on real science but I don't imagine that will happen.

Off topic: I loved this video that helped me rlly understand how string theory and 11 dimensions is a real possibility rather than pseudoscience sounding shit. Physics is so fucking cool to me...
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

-
Jun 17, 2018
1,364
String theory is pretty much plausible and, correct me if I'm wrong, that already pretty much delves into "the multiverse theory". I don't see how that would explain any form of life after death however. I truly don't believe there's any way your consciousness can be transferred out of your brain in any sense, of course I'd be interested to learn otherwise based on real science but I don't imagine that will happen.

Off topic: I loved this video that helped me rlly understand how string theory and 11 dimensions is a real possibility rather than pseudoscience sounding shit. Physics is so fucking cool to me...

What about quantum mechanics. If the brain is made out of subatomic particles then how can it create the thing that is supposed to collapse the wave function? Just for curiosity, I don't really have any real knowledge on quantum mechanics.
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

-
Jun 17, 2018
1,364
Maybe our egos are created by the brain, but our essence/awareness is what creates reality
 
P

Panda

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Jun 25, 2018
34
I mean, we can only understand as much about the universe as is evident to us in the 3rd dimension. We perceive the 4th dimension as duration but viewing it direction would appear as a line between the start of time and the end of time, as if everything was a long snake starting from the beginning of the big bang and ending at the end of everything. Assuming there are 11 dimensions in total there's no way we could really know if it's actually the act of us observing things that collapse a wave function, there's much higher things at work that we'll probably never understand and I feel like consciousness is possibly one of the less magical things in the universe because of that.

That's just me though and I don't mean to shit on your beliefs, I'm very cynical you know.
 
NoLifeNoPain

NoLifeNoPain

-
Jun 17, 2018
1,364
I mean, we can only understand as much about the universe as is evident to us in the 3rd dimension. We perceive the 4th dimension as duration but viewing it direction would appear as a line between the start of time and the end of time, as if everything was a long snake starting from the beginning of the big bang and ending at the end of everything. Assuming there are 11 dimensions in total there's no way we could really know if it's actually the act of us observing things that collapse a wave function, there's much higher things at work that we'll probably never understand and I feel like consciousness is possibly one of the less magical things in the universe because of that.

That's just me though and I don't mean to shit on your beliefs, I'm very cynical you know.
No problem I respect your point of view.
 
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F

Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,353
God exists but it’s harder to see these days especially as the state grew and incentives are altered. People are not all moral but they respond to economic incentives. God helps u understand the purpose of life. One reason they took moral education out of school is that if u aren’t educated well on why you should behave morally u are easier to exploit. The gov or state wants us to see it as God, but sadly other people cannnot rule over others without it destroying society/civilization. When we are all free, I think the suffering is at least manageable but under the state it becomes worse especially as it intervened in all areas of life. God is about voluntary actions, and win/win exchanges, but governments create win/lose exchanges because the services they provide are initiated by using violence, force, and coercion.
 
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