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unperson

unperson

nontitle
Joined
May 8, 2021
Messages
115
People, Communication, Loneliness


The more I get to know someone and the longer I spend talking to them and the more I like them and care about them, the more difficult it seems to become to continue talking to them and open up about things. This is a pretty consistent pattern. The people easiest for me to be genuine and open with are strangers who seem non-judgmental and easy to talk to. But this leaves me with a dichotomy of feeling chronically misunderstood with important people in my life, and feeling emotionally detached with the random people I communicate with more openly. It’s so lonely and painful to live and interact this way… Writing helps though. At this point I must be honest with myself about the fact that I’ve changed to where I’m much more passionate about writing than music. Perhaps this is neither a bad thing or good thing, it just is.

In Other Words (IOW): It’s hard to talk to the people in my life. Strangers are easy but there’s almost no emotion in it. I’m so fucking lonely. Writing helps…


Emotional Wall


Maybe with the important people, the traumatized emotional part of me takes too much energy away from my ability to communicate properly or even to have the energy or motivation to try or intend on trying. Yes that’s it, it’s a matter of not having the motivation and energy necessary to even consider trying to formulate an intention to try to communicate.

IOW: huge thick emotional wall, nothing gets through.


Being Right… A Fucking Curse.


I don’t actually WANT to be right about everything or anything really. But what pains me so much is that for many years I’ve been trying to ignore the incessant perpetually arising critical thoughts that question everything—EVERYTHING—and I’ve been pretending that they aren’t there, but ignoring and pretending haven’t been helpful, it’s exhausting, and I am obsessive about trying to never lie (except to family and other rare anxiety-related exceptions), so I just omit a lot to avoid disagreements or what could seem like arguing or confrontation which I don’t like; but then there’s this excess of paralyzing cognitive dissonance and acute ambivalence—I’m not even going to go off on a tangent of explaining the nuanced difference between my conception of cognitive dissonance and of ambivalence because of the need to ameliorate and reconcile with the disparity between how many fucking endlessly cascading thoughts and ideas there are and how little energy there is (and I know some might want to challenge the idea that there’s such a low amount of energy, and they might want to challenge a lot of things, but regardless of the logic or conventional clinical concept behind such challenges, it is probably best not to; because of my emotional and oppositional side; the fact that I might actually be right in spite of the fact that I often wish I wasn’t; though sometimes I am wrong due to emotional distortions or simply being wrong but it’s probably better to ask a lot of questions about why one believes what they do when such is the case which could easily lead someone to correcting themselves on their own according to this incessant idealism, but who knows anyhow right?; and also for too many reasons to mention and explain due to the aforementioned disparity) and although this little explanation may seem paradoxical in that it’s taking up even more words than what those explanations that I’m explaining why I’m leaving out would explain, I think it’s useful in representing my way of thinking and the chaotic nature of it. Though maybe to the reader it doesn’t seem chaotic..? But if I try too hard I can’t write. So it feels chaotic because it’s like I’m reading from a book that is not written with words but formless ideas that fractalize and I think no amount of writing can ever imbue another with a sufficient facsimile of seeing this wordless web of interconnected ideas in my mind and the spotlight doesn’t always allow me to see the same part of it and I can only see fragments at a time and I can only write down so much of it and even the accuracy of what my words convey is suspect if not painfully imperfect. Also this little runoff is very much a microcosm of my lack of a consistently prioritized sense of direction or any sense of direction. Lately I’ve been more open but it feels like either I’m arguing or ranting. Perhaps there’s options outside of this apparent dichotomy of avoidance/dissonance vs. arguing/ranting.

IOW: I don’t WANT to always be right. I’m just tired and frustrated from being alone with my thoughts and also from feeling like I’m devaluing my intellect when I try to put faith in the beliefs of others over my own beliefs. “Things will get better.” “You have more potential/power/opportunities than you think.” I feel both sad and irritated. Thanks for trying to help. Just feels patronizing. And doesn’t help but instead exacerbates the pain of feeling misunderstood and alone. Also is this other person open minded about possibly being wrong? If they aren’t willing to consider that I might be right and they might be wrong then why should I consider that I might be wrong and they might be right especially considering the obvious intellectual disparity between us that if I comment on will make me seem like an arrogant condescending asshole. I don’t even want to be intelligent, I’d trade it away for happiness with not one fucking iota of hesitation. No I’m not implying a dichotomy, just making a point.

Furthermore the fact is that having an accurate view of things is not innately conducive to happiness. I’ve tried to enter the spell of positive/empowering thinking against the awareness of all the tragedy and suffering that remains apparent; it’s not that I’m programmed or indoctrinated with negativity, though there might be a little bit of that, but it’s more that I see things including what’s painful to see and can’t seem to ameliorate this curse. I can’t think of an example; except for the fact that I can’t think of an example, look at how fucking tragic this example is, it’s like a parady of itself, some kinda shit outa Infinite Jest which according to Wallace was supposed to be sad but people found it hilarious, yeah it can be but when your in it holy shit the irony is so painful because you have no one to laugh at it with and that’s so fucking lonely. :(

IOW: Being right =/= happiness but that doesn’t mean if you're both right and unhappy you can just make a quick trade like buying some pot with a 20$… Imagine what it must have been like to be the first to know the earth was round and revolved around the sun and be judged and hated by everyone else. This might be an exaggerated comparison but it makes a point.

I'm ok with being wrong as well, just not with other people insinuating that their opinion is inherently superior to my own or trying to instigate undesired debates and arguments. Also anyone who uses cliches should probably be asked to explain what the cliche even means and why do they believe it? Are they certain it's accurate? Is it literal or figurative? How sure are they it's correct? Are they capable of articulating its meaning in detail and justifying its logic?

Final Statement

These are all thoughts that needed to get out because the cognitive carnival is overcrouded and required some linguistically precipitated decrouding. Hope some of this is somehow useful.
 
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timf

Arcanist
Joined
Mar 26, 2020
Messages
426
It used to be that truth was the highest national value and as a result there would be arguments about religion, politics, and the like. Today the highest national value is feeling good so conversation has become reduced to the lowest common denominator, banter.

If anyone attempts to use conversation to approach subjects of dispute, or even depth, it will usually make people feel uncomfortable which is now almost a crime.

As a result, social fluidity can seem restricted to those who raise no discomfort in others.

For those of us who have traveled a path of difficulty or had hard encounters with reality, we can frequently find ourselves socially isolated. There are still others with whom a depth of conversation can be achieved, but they are very rare.

It might not be a bad idea to fill hours of solitude with activities that satisfy or even edify while seeking out the few remaining people who are willing to brave discomfort for the sake of what is real.
 
unperson

unperson

nontitle
Joined
May 8, 2021
Messages
115
timf said:
It used to be that truth was the highest national value and as a result there would be arguments about religion, politics, and the like. Today the highest national value is feeling good so conversation has become reduced to the lowest common denominator, banter.

If anyone attempts to use conversation to approach subjects of dispute, or even depth, it will usually make people feel uncomfortable which is now almost a crime.

As a result, social fluidity can seem restricted to those who raise no discomfort in others.

For those of us who have traveled a path of difficulty or had hard encounters with reality, we can frequently find ourselves socially isolated. There are still others with whom a depth of conversation can be achieved, but they are very rare.

It might not be a bad idea to fill hours of solitude with activities that satisfy or even edify while seeking out the few remaining people who are willing to brave discomfort for the sake of what is real.
So basically people got tired of being honest with themselves about reality and now there's a huge divide... if there's a spiritual solution that can reconcile with reason and all the tragedy it would probably be Buddhism, but it's hard to practice anything consistently when mentally ill.

People including myself seem to have emotions attached to their beliefs even the innocuous ones. But this seems conditioned. It's certainly possible to have a calm disagreement.

At the moment it would be hard to talk to new people enough to get to know them.
 
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LetMeGoNow

LetMeGoNow

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
19
NamelessBeing said:
So basically people got tired of being honest with themselves about reality and now there's a huge divide... if there's a spiritual solution that can reconcile with reason and all the tragedy it would probably be Buddhism, but it's hard to practice anything consistently when mentally ill.

People including myself seem to have emotions attached to their beliefs even the innocuous ones. But this seems conditioned. It's certainly possible to have a calm disagreement.

At the moment it would be hard to talk to new people enough to get to know them.
Hey, i think practising buddhism is a great idea. Not only because it appeals to the rational mind, but because especially meditation is proven to have numerous benefits on the mind, including reduced stress and anxiety and an increase of positive emotions.


First results can be expected after daily meditation for as little as 10-15 minutes.
More is always favorable, but i assume you would need some time to get into it, esspecially after seeing how many thoughts you have.

This will make you a lot calmer and happier making it easier to handle your other problems.

Coming to one of your main problems, beeing (very) often right. It may become a hindrance for conversations but if done right, you can use your intellect to your advantage. Channel it into something where such a intellect is not only required, but favorable. Maths or any science is perfect, as only the objective thruth matters. There can be just one solution based on facts, no arguing can change that. You will find that people who work in these fields tend to think and behave exactly like that, even in their free time. Besides beeing more rational, they are also often more intelligent than the regular individual. This is ideal for you, as you can start to slowly create relationships with people who have a similar way of thinking like you. At the mean time, you can try to become better in handling conversations with people who either don't know what they are talking about or just have no depth in their conversations. If u notice someone isn't capable of going deep into a conversation, it's better not to dive too deep, be friendly and keep them happy. You don't have to lie if they say something wrong, but instead of of correcting them, make it seem like you are agreeing but adding your personal take on it. You can also silently agree with them, enjoying the sight of someone who has no clue beeing absolutely convinced of himself.

That's my advice, i hope i didn't miss the point. It's pretty late here and as english isn't my mother tongue your technical terms gave me quite a headache.

Anyways, wish you all the best!
 
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unperson

unperson

nontitle
Joined
May 8, 2021
Messages
115
LetMeGoNow said:
Hey, i think practising buddhism is a great idea. Not only because it appeals to the rational mind, but because especially meditation is proven to have numerous benefits on the mind, including reduced stress and anxiety and an increase of positive emotions.


First results can be expected after daily meditation for as little as 10-15 minutes.
More is always favorable, but i assume you would need some time to get into it, esspecially after seeing how many thoughts you have.

This will make you a lot calmer and happier making it easier to handle your other problems.

Coming to one of your main problems, beeing (very) often right. It may become a hindrance for conversations but if done right, you can use your intellect to your advantage. Channel it into something where such a intellect is not only required, but favorable. Maths or any science is perfect, as only the objective thruth matters. There can be just one solution based on facts, no arguing can change that. You will find that people who work in these fields tend to think and behave exactly like that, even in their free time. Besides beeing more rational, they are also often more intelligent than the regular individual. This is ideal for you, as you can start to slowly create relationships with people who have a similar way of thinking like you. At the mean time, you can try to become better in handling conversations with people who either don't know what they are talking about or just have no depth in their conversations. If u notice someone isn't capable of going deep into a conversation, it's better not to dive too deep, be friendly and keep them happy. You don't have to lie if they say something wrong, but instead of of correcting them, make it seem like you are agreeing but adding your personal take on it. You can also silently agree with them, enjoying the sight of someone who has no clue beeing absolutely convinced of himself.

That's my advice, i hope i didn't miss the point. It's pretty late here and as english isn't my mother tongue your technical terms gave me quite a headache.

Anyways, wish you all the best!
Sorry for forgetting to respond. I had read your message though and remember it being helpful, thanks!
 
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