meetapple

meetapple

Specialist
Jun 3, 2021
338
I have read on this forum that a therapist won’t notify the police if you simply tell him or her that you are suicidal without mentioning specific methods and/or plans. But is that encoded anywhere (like in an official guideline)? Also, I used to see my therapist once a week. She increased the rates because she got her PsyD. Because of that I started seeing her once every two weeks. Since I have become more hopeless I am wondering about going back to once a week. Perhaps my parents will pay for it if I make a case for it via my hopeless feelings. Do you think it could make a difference?
 
T

timf

Mage
Mar 26, 2020
559
Regardless of what the rules are, some may turn you in just because they are afraid of getting sued for liability.

You might want to be cautious as sometimes a person can become emotionally attached to a therapist (like renting a friend once a week). In these situations neither party may have a reason to try to make improvements. Things may actually get slowly worse as unattended problems can worsen.
 
Y

YourNeighbor

Member
Jul 22, 2021
94
Depending where you are and what laws apply, a licensed therapist/doctor may be prohibited from disclosing any information you provide unless it indicates you are at imminent risk of harming yourself or others. So, "I'm jumping after I leave your office" will result in a report, "I'm starting to have suicidal thoughts, but have no plans," will not.

If in doubt, ask your therapist what rules of confidentiality apply. If you are having these thoughts, it makes sense to discuss them with your therapist.
 
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Manaaja

Manaaja

euROPE
Sep 10, 2018
730
DON'T!

NEVER TELL ANYONE!

I've had people who I trusted completely betray me.

If you wanna speak, speak here. Make a thousand 10 000 word long posts if you need. Just don't tell anyone you know in-person. If you want to "speak speak" and not write, speak to google assistant or siri or record your own talk and then later listen to it. Or speak to yourself in shower when no one can hear.
 
Ash

Ash

Member
Oct 4, 2021
76
If you want to recover or at least learn how to manage your thoughts and emotions, then be honest and open. Any good therapist will day themselves that it's up to you how much you disclose but as with physical health, they need the full picture if they're going to help.

It might also be worth talking to your therapist about how often you're seeing them and how you feel about that. If nothing else, they might be able to help you have that discussion with your family.
 
S

spinningharmonica

Member
Sep 2, 2021
22
It depends of what you mean by suicidal. Are they passive or active suicidal thoughts? Anyhow having a coversation with your therapist about how you can talk about suicide, your fears about disclosing them to her and see/guage how your therapist responds to it is a good start.
 
AnxiousSchizoid

AnxiousSchizoid

Student
Mar 24, 2021
117
DON'T!

NEVER TELL ANYONE!

I've had people who I trusted completely betray me.

If you wanna speak, speak here. Make a thousand 10 000 word long posts if you need. Just don't tell anyone you know in-person. If you want to "speak speak" and not write, speak to google assistant or siri or record your own talk and then later listen to it. Or speak to yourself in shower when no one can hear.
Informing other humans about suicidal thoughts is like activating the hive mind in The Matrix movie. They have identified a glitch in the machine; and they will try to make you assimilate.

“Wanting to die is not a part of the human protocol. Return to your primary tasks immediately.”

You do have to be very careful who you tell. I’ve never been institutionalized before, but there are tons of first-hand accounts from other people on these forums who have been deeply traumatized by it.
 
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
15,518
It really varies how understanding they might be but in most jurisdictions, therapists have no choice but to tell the authorities whenever their clients are seemingly in immediate danger of committing suicide no matter how trusting or forward thinking they might be unless they really want to lose their license for some reason. Best way I’ve gone around it is by not being specific on methods or any of my actual suicide plans which allowed my therapists to feel safe in guiding me through whatever immediate thing was making me want to do it although none of it ever helped me long term since I still wanna die but at this point I don’t think any therapist has what it takes to change me. Anyways, like I said your mileage may vary.
 
ChobaniFlipSmores

ChobaniFlipSmores

Hakuna matata?
Jul 28, 2021
175
As a parent, if my kid asked me to go back to seeing a therapist once a week I would approve no questions asked.

I've told my therapist I was suicidal and had things planned out. She seemed to think like it wasn't that big of a deal. That being said, I only had 2 of 8 tasks completed at that time. She "recommended" considering in patient treatment at one point, but then it was never discussed again. From what I hear it's hit or miss depending on your therapist.
 
Manaaja

Manaaja

euROPE
Sep 10, 2018
730
Informing other humans about suicidal thoughts is like activating the hive mind in The Matrix movie. They have identified a glitch in the machine; and they will try to make you assimilate.

“Wanting to die is not a part of the human protocol. Return to your primary tasks immediately.”

You do have to be very careful who you tell. I’ve never been institutionalized before, but there are tons of first-hand accounts from other people on these forums who have been deeply traumatized by it.
Never watched the Matrix movie, always wanted though. It has an interesting premise.

Very true.

When my grandpa died (I was 16-17 maybe) and I was really sad and just wanted to lie on a sofa and cry, my narcissist mom (who is sociopathic, unable to understand emotions) instead of comforting me, just got a psychiatrist to me. And that psychiatrist was an even bigger narcissist. She was full blown psychopath. She smiled widely and told me that I'm going to a psychiatric hospital. i wasn't even suicidal. I was just really sad because my grandpa had died. I told her I had no reason to go to there, but she just smiled widely and told me she is gonna get cops to take me to the mental jail. Years later I heard from two other health care experts, that what that psychiatric did was illegal. In my country, you need two different psychiatrists permission to be sent to mental jail. They also told me that the cops couldn't have arrested me unless I was a very serious threat (I wasn't a threat at all, just a crying teen who just lies on a sofa crying about grandpa who had just died and isn't a threat to anyone, not even to themself) and unless they had permission from two different psychiatrists. She had broken the law by threatening me with cops, by sending me to mental jail even though I wasn't suicidal or a threat to anyone, and she didn't have another psychiatrist's permission. At the mental jail I wasn't allowed to go for walks or exercises (I was born in a countryside, I have spent my whole life walking in forests, I need daily walks for my mental health and for my physical health, I also love running, doing push-ups, sit-ups etc., but of course I couldn't do those at the jail. After being nice, I was allowed one 15 minute walk a day, as if I was a prisoner. Meanwhile prisoners in my country live luxuriously.)

See? This is how murderers, rapers and burglars live in my country. I was a 16 year old harmless child who was sad because their grandpa had died, I was locked in and kept under maximum security. Those criminals have literally murdered people, they get to swim etc.

When I got out of that thought prison (spent four weeks there), the first thing that narcissist psychiatrist did was to complain and throw a meltdown yelling that I shouldn't have been let out and that I should have spent my whole life in that prison.

I have met a few nice psychologists, nurses, regular doctors, dentists, personal assistants, etc. But there's no such thing as a nice psychiatrist. If you have read about narcissists, psychiatrist is a perfect job for them.

Traits of narcs:
1. Believes they are always right. (I'm the doctor here)
2. Grandiose self-rightness (I'm a psychiatrist, I have the right to feed brainwash pills to masses and jail non-believers)
3. Lack of empathy and sympathy. (I don't care what you feel or why you feel it or what would make you feel better)
4. Difficulty in understanding emotions (What do you mean you are just sad your grandpa died?)
5. Ruthlessness (You will be send to a thought jail and spent the rest of your life there)
6. Entitlement (I have a right to send harmless kids to thought jail, I'm above law)

If all narcs suddenly disappeared tonight, next morning all newspapers would read "All psychiatrists mysteriously vanished".

I left the mental services this year. Because I lost my dear home (my life was much happier when I lived at there, it's the only place in this world where I want to live) and I was really sad and devastated and shocked about it, I still am, and I knew they wouldn't give a shit. They would see me as a crazy person, not a person who was sad that they lost their dear home. I feared they would send me to thought jail. I became paranoid. I couldn't sleep because I feared that cops would rush in and take me to mental jail. I put my phone on airplane mode so they couldn't call me or locate me. The phobia and paranoia concerning the mental jail is really strong in me, there's nothing scarier than being sent into mental prison. Luckily nothing bad happened and no one came to arrest me or take me away. But when I get the "They might send me to a mental jail" thought in my head, it's really hard to get rid off it.

I also have asperger and the new psychiatrist and psychologists claimed that I don't have, and I had to tell them that I do have official diagnosis. The psychiatrist also told that there are no medicines to help ease asperger symptoms, even though I literally have a packet of medicine in my medicine cabinet and the packet reads "prescribed to help with asperger symptoms" Previous psychiatrists believed I have asperger and gave me meds to help with my noise sensitivity, this psychiatrist claimed I don't have asperger and that there are no meds for noise sensitivity. Also the new psychologist gaslighted me and victim-blamed me.

The psychologists and psychiatrists aren't there to tell you to get quit your toxic job and get a new one, or to help you distance yourself from a narcissist parent, or to comfort you when your loved one dies, or to tell you that you need to eat better and exercise, or to encourage you to move from a mold home to a clean home. Their only job is to victim blame and hate you.

You are right. It's very traumatizing. I hate this phobia and paranoia I got from it.
 
P

Pallf

I'm tired
May 27, 2018
247
So a few comments have mentioned that immediate or imminent danger will trigger a call to the nearest mental institution. That is true. What I usually do when speaking to a therapist is just say that I'm not planning to ctb any time soon. Or you can be vague about your suicide timeline. The point is make your therapist believe that you are noncommittal to the act of suicide.
Another comment mentioned accidentally becoming friends with the therapist. That's called transference and there are a number of different types, but it's usually considered normal. I however hate it because I can't make meaningful progress after it's set in, but maybe you'll be different and can make inroads into your recovery.
As always, be cautious.
 
N

N2Narcosis

Member
Jun 5, 2021
55
I have read on this forum that a therapist won’t notify the police if you simply tell him or her that you are suicidal without mentioning specific methods and/or plans. But is that encoded anywhere (like in an official guideline)? Also, I used to see my therapist once a week. She increased the rates because she got her PsyD. Because of that I started seeing her once every two weeks. Since I have become more hopeless I am wondering about going back to once a week. Perhaps my parents will pay for it if I make a case for it via my hopeless feelings. Do you think it could make a difference?
It's true that—at least in my area—your therapist can and is obligated to breach confidentiality if and only if you are planning on hurting yourself or others, imminently. That said, there's a great area of ambiguity as that's incredibly vague. A motivated therapist can easily make a case either way. What some therapists would send you to the gulag for, others wouldn't even consider reporting you for. My therapist, for example has never reported me even when all but admitting to being imminently suicidal, though hypotheticals and the SWIM defense may have had a factor in that. On the other hand, I know people who've been sectioned for less.

The best advice I can give you is this. First, I would ask your therapist for a clear answer on what is and what isn't reportable. Then I would see if your therapist will tolerate hypotheticals and the SWIM defense to get around the mandated reporting—mine does, yours might not. Once you have a good advice of what will and won't get you sectioned, I would ask you this: are you willing to take the risk of getting the cops called on you and how likely do you think it is?

Personally, I wouldn't take the risk unless you're very confident in your therapist. But that's just me, I don't know you or your therapist so I cant' give you a solid do/don't.

Also the SWIM defense is "someone who isn't me", as in SWIM kind of wants to die right now.
 
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Ironweed

Ironweed

Nauseated.
Nov 9, 2019
188
I don't think it is worth it, personally. The risks outweigh any potential reward. Maybe some psychologists won't have you sectioned, but some definitely will.
 
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N

N2Narcosis

Member
Jun 5, 2021
55
I don't think it is worth it, personally. The risks outweigh any potential reward. Maybe some psychologists won't have you sectioned, but some definitely will.
This is my stance. Other than my current one I wouldn't tell any of them.
 
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stellabelle

stellabelle

ethereal
Dec 14, 2018
3,610
I have read on this forum that a therapist won’t notify the police if you simply tell him or her that you are suicidal without mentioning specific methods and/or plans. But is that encoded anywhere (like in an official guideline)? Also, I used to see my therapist once a week. She increased the rates because she got her PsyD. Because of that I started seeing her once every two weeks. Since I have become more hopeless I am wondering about going back to once a week. Perhaps my parents will pay for it if I make a case for it via my hopeless feelings. Do you think it could make a difference?

I think it depends on the therapist, how you word what you say, and building that trust with the professional that you’re working with. It depends on the risk factor for the therapist to fail to report and if you followed through, they could be held liable for not intervening.

I’ve gone once/twice a week and when I’ve missed sessions things started to pile up more and more.

Could it make a difference?

Yes.

But I will ask a few questions for you to ask yourself. You don’t have to answer them here.

1. What is causing you to feel suicidal?

2. Is it your environment?

3. Is it a problem that can be solved?

4. What are those solutions?

5. Ideally, what would make you feel like you can proceed forward with your life?

6. How could you attain that?
 
M

MyStateKilledMe

Specialist
Apr 23, 2020
323
The best advice I can give you is this. First, I would ask your therapist for a clear answer on what is and what isn't reportable. Then I would see if your therapist will tolerate hypotheticals and the SWIM defense to get around the mandated reporting—mine does, yours might not. Once you have a good advice of what will and won't get you sectioned, I would ask you this: are you willing to take the risk of getting the cops called on you and how likely do you think it is?
...
Also the SWIM defense is "someone who isn't me", as in SWIM kind of wants to die right now.

The SWIM defense strikes me as pretty feeble. It isn't much different than saying "asking for a friend" on a non-suicide forum, when your question is weird, preposterous, or just plain freaky. For instance... "How do I get into a position where I can perform self-fellatio? Asking for a friend." You're technically "asking for a friend", providing a thinly veiled cover-up, but the jig is up, and people know that it's really for yourself.

If I were you, I wouldn't mention suicide to a the\rapist in any way, shape, or form. In fact, when pressed, I'd use reverse psychology and talk negatively about suicidal people. That mirrors back the very attitude the\rapists have toward suicidal people, and sometimes even forces them to start defending the very people they hate.
 
S

Sadness20

Member
Nov 1, 2021
42
Well if you've ever been hospitalized in a psych ward and you don't want to go there anymore I'd be careful. If you have never been it might even work for you.
 
N

N2Narcosis

Member
Jun 5, 2021
55
The SWIM defense strikes me as pretty feeble. It isn't much different than saying "asking for a friend" on a non-suicide forum, when your question is weird, preposterous, or just plain freaky. For instance... "How do I get into a position where I can perform self-fellatio? Asking for a friend." You're technically "asking for a friend", providing a thinly veiled cover-up, but the jig is up, and people know that it's really for yourself.

If I were you, I wouldn't mention suicide to a the\rapist in any way, shape, or form. In fact, when pressed, I'd use reverse psychology and talk negatively about suicidal people. That mirrors back the very attitude the\rapists have toward suicidal people, and sometimes even forces them to start defending the very people they hate.
Now that you put it like that I think you may be right. It only really works if the therapist in question wants to avoid sending the patient to the psych ward which is probably pretty uncommon.

That said, if someone is going to or thinking about telling their therapist anything, I stand by my advice of getting a clear idea on what is and isn't reportable before saying anything.

The other thing is I don't understand your advice on talking negatively about suicidal people. Wouldn't it make more sense to not speak of it at all? Speaking negatively about suicidal people would likely just draw attention to yourself and make your therapist suspicious.
 
S

Sadness20

Member
Nov 1, 2021
42
DON'T!

NEVER TELL ANYONE!

I've had people who I trusted completely betray me.

If you wanna speak, speak here. Make a thousand 10 000 word long posts if you need. Just don't tell anyone you know in-person. If you want to "speak speak" and not write, speak to google assistant or siri or record your own talk and then later listen to it. Or speak to yourself in shower when no one can hear.
I understand that it's difficult being betrayed but remember your situation can be very different from others. Please consider that. No offense meant❤️
 
M

MyStateKilledMe

Specialist
Apr 23, 2020
323
The other thing is I don't understand your advice on talking negatively about suicidal people. Wouldn't it make more sense to not speak of it at all? Speaking negatively about suicidal people would likely just draw attention to yourself and make your therapist suspicious.
I said "when pressed". That is, when a the\rapist puts you on the spot with suicide questions. That's when you gotta push back in a way that makes it 100% clear that you're NOT suicidal. And talking negatively about suicidal people isn't a bad way to achieve it. At the same time, like you said, there's absolutely no good reason to initiate talking about suicide. If the the\rapist doesn't bring it up, don't bring it up yourself.
 
N

N2Narcosis

Member
Jun 5, 2021
55
I said "when pressed". That is, when a the\rapist puts you on the spot with suicide questions. That's when you gotta push back in a way that makes it 100% clear that you're NOT suicidal. And talking negatively about suicidal people isn't a bad way to achieve it. At the same time, like you said, there's absolutely no good reason to initiate talking about suicide. If the the\rapist doesn't bring it up, don't bring it up yourself.
I missed the "when pressed" part. Now your statement makes more sense. I agree with you.
 
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