H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
You couldnt be serious, all that planning for the least effective methods sounds like bullshit.
 
H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
I don't quite understand what you mean. Is SN considered ineffective?

Well considering Nitschke says: "You dont have to make azide more powerful and more effective because its pretty damm effective in its full strength as it is. But you might wanna speed up your nitrite and perhaps lower the quantities a bit and its relatively straight forward." (source: "NuTech Toronto Oct 2017 Dr Nitschke discusses the use of lethal inorganic salts for euthanasia" video)

The powerful and effective sodium azide can be compared with the reality, check out my post (link below). Seems like Nitschkes fiction beats reality. Unless you consider surviving 40 hours on azide powerful and effective.
https://sanctioned-suicide.org/threads/azide.1575/#post-19003

So if sodium nitrite is less powerful and effective then azide, SN sounds like an ordeal.
 
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Aurelius

Aurelius

Member
Aug 13, 2018
11
New here, was on r/sanctionedsuicide before it was banned. What is SN, or do we have a "not allowed to be specific about methods" rule here too? Oh, I see 'rules' in the menu, I'll click that. I'll just leave this as a hello anyway. First post. Hi. Edit: I see that SN is sodium nitrite. I've read the rules/faq, and I see that there is no censorship here, except for shills and trolls. Glad to be here.
 
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Azure

Azure

Little Chemist
Jun 13, 2018
135
Well considering Nitschke says: "You dont have to make azide more powerful and more effective because its pretty damm effective in its full strength as it is. But you might wanna speed up your nitrite and perhaps lower the quantities a bit and its relatively straight forward." (source: "NuTech Toronto Oct 2017 Dr Nitschke discusses the use of lethal inorganic salts for euthanasia" video)

The powerful and effective sodium azide can be compared with the reality, check out my post (link below). Seems like Nitschkes fiction beats reality. Unless you consider surviving 40 hours on azide powerful and effective.
https://sanctioned-suicide.org/threads/azide.1575/#post-19003

So if sodium nitrite is less powerful and effective then azide, SN sounds like an ordeal.
Single cases aren't representative of the entire method at all. Yes, you might survive 40 hours after SA, just as much as your body may naturally overcome the effects of SN for some reason. All the more chemical methods' success depend on how your body reacts to them, and it's a risk you have to take. On the other hand, pleople may pick SN over SA because of it's availability, because we've gathered more information on it, because they knew someone who pulled through this method, which most people on this forum do, or maybe because they don't want to handle a potentially explosive substance that poses danger to other people even after their deaths.
Sadly, the peaceful pill doesn't and may never exist, so every method is bound to fail sometimes, even with the utmost precaution.
 
H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
Single cases aren't representative of the entire method at all. Yes, you might survive 40 hours after SA, just as much as your body may naturally overcome the effects of SN for some reason. All the more chemical methods' success depend on how your body reacts to them, and it's a risk you have to take. On the other hand, pleople may pick SN over SA because of it's availability, because we've gathered more information on it, because they knew someone who pulled through this method, which most people on this forum do, or maybe because they don't want to handle a potentially explosive substance that poses danger to other people even after their deaths.
Sadly, the peaceful pill doesn't and may never exist, so every method is bound to fail sometimes, even with the utmost precaution.

Unfortunately it seems like its not single cases of prolonged suffering with sodium azide, rather the opposite:

The study im refering to is a review of the literature from 1927 to 2002 on human exposure to sodium azide and its health effects. Meaning that they have looked at all known cases of sodium azide during that period.

"More severe and fatal toxic effects had later onsets within a range
of an hour to several days. These effects included hypothermia,
seizure, coma, cardiac arrhythmia associated with electrocardiogram
(EKG) changes, chest pain, pulmonary edema, oliguria,
metabolic acidosis, and cardiopulmonary failure."

"All individuals with hypotension
for more than an hour died."
https://sanctioned-suicide.org/threads/azide.1575/#post-19003

Honestly i havent seen a single case of sodium azide where the experience is quick and peaceful like Nitschke suggests with words like powerful and effective. But sodium azide seems to be a very reliable method, and there is no antidote.

Reliability of the salts
Sodium cyanide 10/10
Sodium azide 9/10
Sodium nitrite 7/10

To summarize
Sodium cyanide is painful but it delivers death in 2-5 minutes. Very reliable.

Sodium azide delivers death within hours according to the scientific articles i have seen, with unpleasant symptoms. Very reliable.

Sodium nitrite is less powerful then sodium azide and scores only 7 out of 10 in PPeH:s reliability test.

Conclusion
I suggest use two methods to make it reliable and peaceful and prevent ending up like a "single case". If "sodium nitrite and carbon monoxide" or "sodium nitrite and nitrogen" is a good combination these could be a wise mans choices.

"Sodium nitrite is contraindicated in cases where carbon monoxide poisoning has also occurred."*
(source: "Chemical Agents
Ian Greaves FRCP, FCEM, FIMC, RCS(Ed), DTM&H, DMCC, DipMedEd, RAMC, Paul Hunt MBBS, DipIMC(RCSEd), MCEM, MRCSEd, DMCC, RAMC, in Responding to Terrorism, 2010")
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780080450438000052

*contraindicated referring to a disadvantageous, potentially dangerous manoeuvre or therapy that should not be used due to risks involved.
 
C

creatureoflight

Mage
Jul 27, 2018
529
Well considering Nitschke says: "You dont have to make azide more powerful and more effective because its pretty damm effective in its full strength as it is. But you might wanna speed up your nitrite and perhaps lower the quantities a bit and its relatively straight forward." (source: "NuTech Toronto Oct 2017 Dr Nitschke discusses the use of lethal inorganic salts for euthanasia" video)

The powerful and effective sodium azide can be compared with the reality, check out my post (link below). Seems like Nitschkes fiction beats reality. Unless you consider surviving 40 hours on azide powerful and effective.
https://sanctioned-suicide.org/threads/azide.1575/#post-19003

So if sodium nitrite is less powerful and effective then azide, SN sounds like an ordeal.

Hey, where does he say this exactly? is it in the PPH or in a video?
 
O

OfficerK

Experienced
May 6, 2018
255
I'm not sure if it's fair to directly compare nitrite and azide like that and to just assume that lower reliability means that it's a "weaker" substance. Nitrite isn't just a weaker version of azide. It kills by converting hemoglobin to methemoglobin, while azide prevents the cells from undergoing metabolism. I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to neither chemistry nor medicine, but I would think that it's possible that there could be a big difference in how the two processes are experienced.
 
H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
I'm not sure if it's fair to directly compare nitrite and azide like that and to just assume that lower reliability means that it's a "weaker" substance. Nitrite isn't just a weaker version of azide. It kills by converting hemoglobin to methemoglobin, while azide prevents the cells from undergoing metabolism. I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to neither chemistry nor medicine, but I would think that it's possible that there could be a big difference in how the two processes are experienced.

Some methods have different cause of death, but we need tools to asses and compare methods. That is the reason Nitschke use the Exit Reliability & Peacefulness Test.

The Exit RP Test
"Many end of life options are discussed in this book and it can be a daunting project trying to distinguish or compare the relative advantages or shortcomings of on one over the other. To simplify the process, we have developed a simple rating system that can be applied to all end of life methods." "The higher the number, the more reliable and peaceful the method in question."

Reliability (R-10)
"Reliability has been consistently identified as a major important factor in assessing end of life methods. A seriously ill person wanting to end their life needs to know the method will work. No one wants to take chances with a method that might work. Reliability is essential."
(PPeH)

When i choose method i prefer method that is reliable with fast delivery. We might have different preferences but few of us wants endure prolonged suffering and end up as a vegetable.

Based on Nitschkes explanation i interpretate 10/10 as the most reliable (low failure rate) and 1/10 not reliable. 7 out of 10 for sn means that sn has higher failure rate then a method that score 10/10 for reliability.

Conclusion
So either the cause of death by converting hemoglobin to methemoglobin isnt effective means of induce death in humans or sodium nitrites does a poor job converting hemoglobin to methemoglobin.
 
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R

ReleaseMe

I know it's over And it never really began
May 26, 2018
121
I only know of one person who claims to have taken it in sufficient quantity and survived. The only person that comes to my mind where it's almost definitive that she died from it is Sonnenblume but theretare probably more users of this forum who offed themselves with Sn.

I'm still wondering how painful and how disfiguring it is, how long it takes etc.
Questions not answered reliably anywhere it seems but I don't think it's unreliable in that it it doesn't kill you given you take like 25+ grams
 
O

OfficerK

Experienced
May 6, 2018
255
Some methods have different cause of death, but we need tools to asses and compare methods. That is the reason Nitschke use the Exit Reliability & Peacefulness Test.

The Exit RP Test
"Many end of life options are discussed in this book and it can be a daunting project trying to distinguish or compare the relative advantages or shortcomings of on one over the other. To simplify the process, we have developed a simple rating system that can be applied to all end of life methods." "The higher the number, the more reliable and peaceful the method in question."

Reliability (R-10)
"Reliability has been consistently identified as a major important factor in assessing end of life methods. A seriously ill person wanting to end their life needs to know the method will work. No one wants to take chances with a method that might work. Reliability is essential."
(PPeH)

When i choose method i prefer method that is reliable with fast delivery. We might have different preferences but few of us wants endure prolonged suffering and end up as a vegetable.

Based on Nitschkes explanation i interpretate 10/10 as the most reliable (low failure rate) and 1/10 not reliable. 7 out of 10 for sn means that sn has higher failure rate then a method that score 10/10 for reliability.

Conclusion
So either the cause of death by converting hemoglobin to methemoglobin isnt effective means of induce death in humans or sodium nitrites does a poor job converting hemoglobin to methemoglobin.

Sure, but we don't know what goes into that rating. Does it mean that 7/10 subjects in a laboratory setting (no antidote, high dose, etc.) would die, or do they take other things into account? For example, in the vimeo video he specifically addresses how azide has no antidote, while nitrite does. Could it be that the success rate under laboratory conditions is actually higher than 7/10, but that he detracts one or several points because of the antidote? If that was the case, nitrite would be as effective for someone who has a low likelihood of being saved.


What I was talking about earlier was the statement "So if sodium nitrite is less powerful and effective then azide, SN sounds like an ordeal", which to me sounds like you equate a lower reliability rating to the drug being less powerful, in the sense that it takes longer to work and is more painful. As I explained above, that is not necessarily true - although it could be.
 
H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
Sure, but we don't know what goes into that rating. Does it mean that 7/10 subjects in a laboratory setting (no antidote, high dose, etc.) would die, or do they take other things into account? For example, in the vimeo video he specifically addresses how azide has no antidote, while nitrite does. Could it be that the success rate under laboratory conditions is actually higher than 7/10, but that he detracts one or several points because of the antidote? If that was the case, nitrite would be as effective for someone who has a low likelihood of being saved.


What I was talking about earlier was the statement "So if sodium nitrite is less powerful and effective then azide, SN sounds like an ordeal", which to me sounds like you equate a lower reliability rating to the drug being less powerful, in the sense that it takes longer to work and is more painful. As I explained above, that is not necessarily true - although it could be.

Speed (PPeH)
sodium cyanide 5/5
sodium azide 5/5
sodium nitrite 3/5

Its a mystery how Nitschke rates the methods. A clarification from Nitschke in his next edition of PPeH would be more then welcome.
 
anna

anna

downfall
Mar 18, 2018
441
Unfortunately it seems like its not single cases of prolonged suffering with sodium azide, rather the opposite:

The study im refering to is a review of the literature from 1927 to 2002 on human exposure to sodium azide and its health effects. Meaning that they have looked at all known cases of sodium azide during that period.

"More severe and fatal toxic effects had later onsets within a range
of an hour to several days. These effects included hypothermia,
seizure, coma, cardiac arrhythmia associated with electrocardiogram
(EKG) changes, chest pain, pulmonary edema, oliguria,
metabolic acidosis, and cardiopulmonary failure."

"All individuals with hypotension
for more than an hour died."
https://sanctioned-suicide.org/threads/azide.1575/#post-19003

Honestly i havent seen a single case of sodium azide where the experience is quick and peaceful like Nitschke suggests with words like powerful and effective. But sodium azide seems to be a very reliable method, and there is no antidote.

Reliability of the salts
Sodium cyanide 10/10
Sodium azide 9/10
Sodium nitrite 7/10

To summarize
Sodium cyanide is painful but it delivers death in 2-5 minutes. Very reliable.

Sodium azide delivers death within hours according to the scientific articles i have seen, with unpleasant symptoms. Very reliable.

Sodium nitrite is less powerful then sodium azide and scores only 7 out of 10 in PPeH:s reliability test.

Conclusion
I suggest use two methods to make it reliable and peaceful and prevent ending up like a "single case". If "sodium nitrite and carbon monoxide" or "sodium nitrite and nitrogen" is a good combination these could be a wise mans choices.

"Sodium nitrite is contraindicated in cases where carbon monoxide poisoning has also occurred."*
(source: "Chemical Agents
Ian Greaves FRCP, FCEM, FIMC, RCS(Ed), DTM&H, DMCC, DipMedEd, RAMC, Paul Hunt MBBS, DipIMC(RCSEd), MCEM, MRCSEd, DMCC, RAMC, in Responding to Terrorism, 2010")
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780080450438000052

*contraindicated referring to a disadvantageous, potentially dangerous manoeuvre or therapy that should not be used due to risks involved.

What do you think about combining nitrite with amitriptyline + diazepam? @HannibalLector
 
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HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
SN and time of delivery
I found about three cases that can give some indication about the time. There arnt that many cases to come by. Although like Azure mentioned: ”Single cases aren't representative of the entire method at all.”. They might be outliers. But at least these hard facts gives some indication of time instead of speculation. Until we have larger sets of data i present what i know.

First case – found bright blue and hysterical, 18:30 admitted to hospital passed away at 20:30
”SUMMARY Methaemoglobinaemia may be caused by inges- tion of a number of drugs, among them nitrites, some of which are remarkably toxic. This was tragically highlighted by the death of a 17 year old dental nurse after taking a single 1 g tablet of sodium nitrite. These tablets are widely used in the medical and dental profession to prevent rusting of instruments while immersed in disinfectant solutions. The toxicity of this chemical should be more widely recognized and its storage made correspondingly more secure. Methaemoglobinaemia should be considered as a diagnosis in any patient with significant central cyanosis in whom there is no obvious cardiorespiratory cause.”

”Case history MISS H, a 17 year old dental nurse, was admitted to the casualty department at 18.30 hours after being found at home in an hysterical condition and bright blue.” ”No history was obtainable from her but her boyfriend reported that she had been fit and well earlier in the day and that he had not seen any evidence of drug ingestion at her house. Fifteen minutes after admission she vomited, aspirated and suffered a respiratory arrest. She was intubated and ventilated. Despite her cyanosis her arterial blood gases were normal.” ”However, by 19.30 hours her blood pressure was unrecordable, a series of cardiac arrythmias ensued and, despite the insertion of a temporary pacing wire together with standard resuscitation measures, she failed to recover. She was certified dead at 20.30 hours, two hours after admission.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1371420/pdf/brjgenprac00074-0032.pdf

Second case
”A 76-year-old man collapsed and rapidly developed brady-asystolic cardiac arrest 25 min following self-poisoning with an unknown quantity of crystalline sodium nitrite.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21040485

Third case – after one hour after ingestion brought to hospital
”We report a case of severe methemoglobinemia due to sodium nitrite poisoning. A 28-year-old man was brought to our emergency department because of transient loss of consciousness and cyanosis.” ”After relocation to the intensive care unit, his consciousness improved and he could recall ingesting approximately 15 g sodium nitrite about 1 hour before he was brought to our hospital. The patient was discharged on day 7 without neurologic impairment.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987464/
 
H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
Sodium Nitrite reliability assessment
”Concerns persist though about adverse symptoms and reliability. The use of nitrite in pig populations has been explained by the low level of methemoglobin reductase in pigs. This enzyme level is higher in humans making them (theoretically) less susceptible.”
http://www.finalexit.org/ergo_nutech_new_technology.html
 
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H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
Sodium nitrite and lethal dose and reliability
"HUMAN EXPOSURE STUDIES/ Symptoms of nitrite poisoning and MetHb formation after ingestion ranged from 0.4 to > 200 mg/kg bw, expressed as nitrite ion ... MetHb formation in different cases varied from 7.7 up to 79% ... /It was deduced that/ cyanosis occurred at MetHb concentration above 10%, and other symptoms at > 20% ... /Nitrite" (toxic database)

A deeper look
"2.3.1 Methaemoglobin formation

Nitrite is more toxic to young infants than to adults, due to
the higher methaemoglobin formation in infants (section 2.1.2.2).

Accidental human intoxications have been reported due to the
presence of nitrite in food. The oral lethal dose for humans was
estimated to vary from 33 to 250 mg NO2-/kg bw, the lower doses
applying to children and elderly people (Corré & Breimer, 1979).
Toxic doses giving rise to induction of methaemoglobinaemia ranged
from 1 to 8.3 mg/kg bw (Winton et al., 1971; Simon, 1970). Several
case reports of human intoxication from high nitrite exposure have
recently been published (Machabert et al., 1994; Dudley & Salomon,
1993; Bradberry et al., 1994; Kaplan et al., 1990; Walley &
Flanagan, 1987). The toxicity of nitrite can be induced both from
inhalation (amyl nitrite) and oral intake (sodium nitrite, amyl
nitrite). The approximate intake figures were sometimes reconstructed

from residual nitrite in food products. Symptoms of nitrite poisoning
and MetHb formation after ingestion ranged from 0.4 to > 200 mg/kg
bw, expressed as nitrite ion. Symptoms of methaemoglobinaemia include
cyanosis, euphoria, flushed face, headache, dizziness, ataxia,
followed by dyspnoea and tachycardia, depending on the level of
exposure to nitrite. MetHb formation in different cases varied from
7.7 up to 79%. Patient recovered well due to therapy with methylene
blue combined with oxygen and/or ascorbic acid and in severe cases,
exchange transfusion (Kaplan et al., 1990; Walley & Flanagan,
1987). From these case reports it was deduced that cyanosis occurred
at MetHb concentration above 10%, and other symptoms at > 20%. If no
therapy was immediately applied, concentrations of 60-70% MetHb
were often fatal (Kaplan et al., 1990; Walley & Flanagan, 1987;
Bradberry et al., 1994). Another source of information with
respect to nitrite toxicity in humans is the use of sodium nitrite
as medication for vasodilation or as antidote in cyanide poisoning.
Doses of 30-300 mg/person, equivalent to 0.5-5 mg/kg bw, did not
cause toxic effects (NAS, 1981)."


Other medical source about Methemoglobin Inducers

”The half-life of methemoglobin acutely formed as a result of exposure to oxidants is 1–3 hours. If there is continuous exposure to the oxidant, then the half-life of methemoglobin will appear prolonged. Certain compounds, such as dapsone, characteristically produce prolonged methemoglobinemia.
(toxicology literature, Methemoglobin Inducers)

If you are unfamiliar with the medical term "half-life":
”Half-life […] is the time required for a quantity to reduce to half its initial value.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life

"Cyanosis is a consistent physical finding and typically occurs when just 1.5
g/dL of methemoglobin is present, which represents approximately a 10%
methemoglobinemia. At 20–50% methemoglobin concentrations, dizziness,
fatigue, headache, and exertional dyspnea may develop. At approximately
50% methemoglobin, lethargy and stupor usually appear; and the lethal con-
centration is probably greater than 70%" (toxicology literature, Methemoglobin Inducers)

Conclusion
Reason for reported failures and scoring low on Nitschkes reliability test could be that humans more effective methemoglobin reductase. I also dicovered that dapsone produce prolonged methemoglobinemia. And that "continuous exposure" of sodium nitrite could possible increase likelihood of successful ctb. And it might be somewhat difficult achieve lethal levels methemoglobin (above 70%) when sodium nitrite ingestion from 0.4 to > 200 mg/kg only reaches methemoglobinemia levels of 7.7 up to 79%.
 
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Jackblade

Jackblade

-
Aug 9, 2018
199
Sodium nitrite and lethal dose and reliability
"HUMAN EXPOSURE STUDIES/ Symptoms of nitrite poisoning and MetHb formation after ingestion ranged from 0.4 to > 200 mg/kg bw, expressed as nitrite ion ... MetHb formation in different cases varied from 7.7 up to 79% ... /It was deduced that/ cyanosis occurred at MetHb concentration above 10%, and other symptoms at > 20% ... /Nitrite" (toxic database)

A deeper look
"2.3.1 Methaemoglobin formation

Nitrite is more toxic to young infants than to adults, due to
the higher methaemoglobin formation in infants (section 2.1.2.2).

Accidental human intoxications have been reported due to the
presence of nitrite in food. The oral lethal dose for humans was
estimated to vary from 33 to 250 mg NO2-/kg bw, the lower doses
applying to children and elderly people (Corré & Breimer, 1979).
Toxic doses giving rise to induction of methaemoglobinaemia ranged
from 1 to 8.3 mg/kg bw (Winton et al., 1971; Simon, 1970). Several
case reports of human intoxication from high nitrite exposure have
recently been published (Machabert et al., 1994; Dudley & Salomon,
1993; Bradberry et al., 1994; Kaplan et al., 1990; Walley &
Flanagan, 1987). The toxicity of nitrite can be induced both from
inhalation (amyl nitrite) and oral intake (sodium nitrite, amyl
nitrite). The approximate intake figures were sometimes reconstructed

from residual nitrite in food products. Symptoms of nitrite poisoning
and MetHb formation after ingestion ranged from 0.4 to > 200 mg/kg
bw, expressed as nitrite ion. Symptoms of methaemoglobinaemia include
cyanosis, euphoria, flushed face, headache, dizziness, ataxia,
followed by dyspnoea and tachycardia, depending on the level of
exposure to nitrite. MetHb formation in different cases varied from
7.7 up to 79%. Patient recovered well due to therapy with methylene
blue combined with oxygen and/or ascorbic acid and in severe cases,
exchange transfusion (Kaplan et al., 1990; Walley & Flanagan,
1987). From these case reports it was deduced that cyanosis occurred
at MetHb concentration above 10%, and other symptoms at > 20%. If no
therapy was immediately applied, concentrations of 60-70% MetHb
were often fatal (Kaplan et al., 1990; Walley & Flanagan, 1987;
Bradberry et al., 1994). Another source of information with
respect to nitrite toxicity in humans is the use of sodium nitrite
as medication for vasodilation or as antidote in cyanide poisoning.
Doses of 30-300 mg/person, equivalent to 0.5-5 mg/kg bw, did not
cause toxic effects (NAS, 1981)."


Other medical source about Methemoglobin Inducers

”The half-life of methemoglobin acutely formed as a result of exposure to oxidants is 1–3 hours. If there is continuous exposure to the oxidant, then the half-life of methemoglobin will appear prolonged. Certain compounds, such as dapsone, characteristically produce prolonged methemoglobinemia.
(toxicology literature, Methemoglobin Inducers)

If you are unfamiliar with the medical term "half-life":
”Half-life […] is the time required for a quantity to reduce to half its initial value.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life

"Cyanosis is a consistent physical finding and typically occurs when just 1.5
g/dL of methemoglobin is present, which represents approximately a 10%
methemoglobinemia. At 20–50% methemoglobin concentrations, dizziness,
fatigue, headache, and exertional dyspnea may develop. At approximately
50% methemoglobin, lethargy and stupor usually appear; and the lethal con-
centration is probably greater than 70%" (toxicology literature, Methemoglobin Inducers)

Conclusion
Reason for reported failures and scoring low on Nitschkes reliability test could be that humans more effective methemoglobin reductase. I also dicovered that dapsone produce prolonged methemoglobinemia. And that "continuous exposure" of sodium nitrite could possible increase likelihood of successful ctb. And it might be somewhat difficult achieve lethal levels methemoglobin (above 70%) when sodium nitrite ingestion from 0.4 to > 200 mg/kg only reaches methemoglobinemia levels of 7.7 up to 79%.
Just take 20 to 25g then, and good bye world
 
H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
Just take 20 to 25g then, and good bye world

It would be nice to see a live stream with higher dosage (50g) and "continuous exposure", maybe additional lethal cocktail (30g SN) every two to three hours while still conscious.

Hannibals prescription
Drink Anti-emetic 30 minutes before taking SN. Then drink sodium bicarbonate dissolved in water shortly before drinking your lethal cocktail of 50g SN. If still conscious after 2-3 hours drink sodium bicarbonate dissolved in water shortly before drink additional lethal cocktail of 30g SN (repeat last sentence every three hours until rendered unconscious).

Potentiating sodium nitrite
"An effective and peaceful death depends on the nitrite overwhelming the restorative enzyme methemoglobin reducatse. The achieve this, rapid gut absorption of the salt on ingestion ca be facilitated by increasing the stomach pH, by taking a drinking 5 gm of dissolved sodium bicarbonate dissolved in water shortly before taking the nitrite solution."

If Nitschke doesnt abandon SN. I wouldnt be surprised to see increase of the dosage in later editions of PPeH. It wouldnt be the first time.
 
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Jackblade

Jackblade

-
Aug 9, 2018
199
It would be nice to see a live stream with higher dosage (50g) and "continuous exposure", maybe additional lethal cocktail (30g SN) every two to three hours while still conscious.

Hannibals prescription
Drink Anti-emetic 30 minutes before taking SN. Then drink sodium bicarbonate dissolved in water shortly before drinking your lethal cocktail of 50g SN. If still conscious after 2-3 hours drink sodium bicarbonate dissolved in water shortly before drink additional lethal cocktail of 30g SN (repeat last sentence every three hours until rendered unconscious).

Potentiating sodium nitrite
"An effective and peaceful death depends on the nitrite overwhelming the restorative enzyme methemoglobin reducatse. The achieve this, rapid gut absorption of the salt on ingestion ca be facilitated by increasing the stomach pH, by taking a drinking 5 gm of dissolved sodium bicarbonate dissolved in water shortly before taking the nitrite solution."

If Nitschke doesnt abandon SN. I wouldnt be surprised to see increase of the dosage in later editions of PPeH. It wouldnt be the first time.
I dont get it, how can you still be conscious 2-3 hours after had drunk like 30g of SN ?!? This is impossible !
I really don't get it,PPH says unconscious after 12-13 mins for a 15 grams dose...
 
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H

HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
I dont get it, how can you still be conscious 2-3 hours after had drunk like 30g of SN ?!? This is impossible !

Check cases in post 19.

Maybe its more cleaver to use dapsone then sodium nitrite (see post 21).
 
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O

OfficerK

Experienced
May 6, 2018
255
I'm not sure if any of those cases indicate that consciousness 2-3 hours after ingestion is likely when taking a high dosage.

In the first case the subject had taken a very small amount of nitrite, yet she died two hours after being admitted to the hospital. The report doesn't state when she took the tablet nor when she was unconscious. Subject three was already falling unconscious within one hour of ingestion.

I don't think neither of these cases are ideal references. Both subjects ingested fairly small amounts, with the woman only taking one gram (yet still dying!) and the man taking a moderate dose at 15g. Both significantly less than 30g.

They also received medical attention. The man was hospitalised an hour after ingestion, but he probably received some sort of care when the EMT first arrived and on the way to the hospital. It's hard to tell when the 17-year old was first discovered (to me it sounds like she called 911 out of panic, but I don't know for sure), but she also received medical care for a while before dying. While it says that she died at 20:30, it is likely that she fell unconscious a while before that.

As for dapsone, I found some articles that describe using it in suicides and suicide attempts. It's hard to tell if it's more effective; I don't think that an article simply mentioning it as an example necessarily proves that it's better, but I guess it's worth considering. Still, part of nitrites appeal is the fact that it's easy to obtain. Dapsone would require a prescription that is probably hard to get for most people.
 
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creatureoflight

Mage
Jul 27, 2018
529
I'm really confused by Nitschkes video. At 12:17, he shows the activity of Mehb reductase in different animals. Below, you can see the lethal gavage dose in mg pro kilo. The dot that represents the human is somewhere before the pig? So doesn't this mean that actually Mehb is less effective in humans than in pigs? Rats seem to be way more effective at processing this poison than humans as they are on the right. Or am I interpreting this completely wrong?
 
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creatureoflight

Mage
Jul 27, 2018
529
The lethal dosage for humans pro kg seems to be less than for pigs, so doesn't this mean that nitrite would be roughly as effective or even more effective in humans than in pigs?
 
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HannibalLector

Student
Jul 5, 2018
162
I don't think neither of these cases are ideal references. Both subjects ingested fairly small amounts, with the woman only taking one gram (yet still dying!) and the man taking a moderate dose at 15g. Both significantly less than 30g.

"I don't think neither of these cases are ideal references. Both subjects ingested fairly small amounts, with the woman only taking one gram (yet still dying!) and the man taking a moderate dose at 15g. Both significantly less than 30g."
Are you aware that Nitschke recommends 15g?

Summary
Sodium nitrite isnt my method because i dont consider it a reliable enough for self deliverance, my fear of become a vegetable is in par with phobia. The method is not as reliable in humans in comparison to pigs because human methemoglobin reducatse system is more effective in converting methemoglobin back to hemoglobin (with a half life of 1-3 hours). Even the man that suggested the method, Nitschke, claims that it only scores 7 out of 10 on his reliability test. Its low reliability makes it dangerous, because the method deprives your brain of oxygen and you could potentially end up with severe brain damage. And studies show it might be somewhat difficult achieve lethal levels methemoglobin (above 70%) when sodium nitrite ingestion from 0.4 to > 200 mg/kg only reaches methemoglobinemia levels of 7.7 up to 79%.

Nitschkes credibility
*Increasing dosage in later editions
*Rates sodium azide 5/5 in speed despite several scientific articles depicting azide in painful outdrawn process over hours or days. Then Nitshcke claims that SN rates 3/5 in speed test. Nitschke also claims SN is less powerful then sodium azide. We have seen some evidence that contradicts: PPH says unconscious after 12 mins for a 15 grams dose.

If you still want try it i suggest using my prescription above.

Anyway i hope you reached a greater understanding of SN.

Verdic
SN is a social club.
 
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