Circles

Circles

There's a difference between existing and living.
Sep 3, 2018
1,463
Both Korean and night-night are variation of tourniquet/compression, which is hanging with extra steps. In order for something to be an actual method, there has to be at least one documented case, and I have seen zero so far. I consider tourniquet to be a separate method, and have seen cases of its use. Joke is maybe too strong word, but people laugh at home made guillotine, and yet it has more documented cases than bean bags and Korean collar combined. If you have any links claiming otherwise, I'll be glad to check them out and correct myself.

There’s two members I remember. @BurningLights and @Kooz. Here’s one of BurningLights threads about his set up:
And since his pictures aren’t showing up in this thread I’ll post them cause I saved it.
And as for Kooz he didn’t make a goodbye thread but only posted in the NN megathread saying he was using it.

For one I can’t ‘prove’ anything cause everyone who said they used the NN or any method for that matter doesn’t mean they actually did use it. All I know is some people who said they were going to use it and that’s that. And second any other ‘proof’ or ‘source’ regarding this method outside this forum will probably be lumped together and considered a hanging by medical examiners and such. So the name ‘night night method’ most likely isn’t going to pop up in a google search.

It doesn’t matter what you say I’ve been practicing with NN on and off over the past 2 years of discovering it and I find it a better method than hanging with just a simple rope, but I guess we can agree to disagree. Since you’re so against it, what proof do you have that it doesn’t work? If simple hanging with a dull rope can work so can this but I’d love to hear how you think it doesn’t work.

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Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,451
Iirc Burning Lights abandoned that method as it was impractical and opted for partial in the end.
 
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Circles

Circles

There's a difference between existing and living.
Sep 3, 2018
1,463
Iirc Burning Lights abandoned that method as it was impractical and opted for partial in the end.
Well I’m not going to argue if that’s the case for him I don’t remember everything. Again I don’t have ‘proof’ of his choice of method. Nevertheless this method isn’t impractical in my opinion after testing it myself. But please explain why it’s impractical then? And quite frankly if you haven’t tried this yourselves then you shouldn’t be so dismissive about it.

Let me guess Philip N said something about this method and y’all are trying to disprove it all because he talked about it in the pph. Of course the pph could be wrong which I can understand but after testing this myself I don’t think it’s impractical.
 
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Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,451
Well I’m not going to argue if that’s the case for him I don’t remember everything. Again I don’t have ‘proof’ of his choice of method. Nevertheless this method isn’t impractical in my opinion after testing it myself. But please explain why it’s impractical then? And quite frankly if you haven’t tried this yourselves then you shouldn’t be so dismissive about it.

Let me guess Philip N said something about this method and y’all are trying to disprove it all because the pph could be wrong which I can understand.
I meant he found it impractical, though fwiw l too consider it such, though l haven't tried it myself l haven't tried N either, so who's to say?

My own view is that this method was kickstarted by a user on here, much like the shallow water blackout and the sn with dmso. They're all weird addendums to tried and tested methods (hanging, drowning, sn respectively) with no evidence to say they are any more effective beyond a few posts on here, so l tend to stay clear, but if they work for you then fine, not going to dissuade you.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
Dying is already hard enough without trying these confusing and untested methods. Hanging is the most common method used around the world for a reason. It works. I agree with @Chinaski on this. It is interesting to read about new methods from a purely academic viewpoint but practically I would just stick with the tried and true methods.
 
Circles

Circles

There's a difference between existing and living.
Sep 3, 2018
1,463
I meant he found it impractical, though fwiw l too consider it such, though l haven't tried it myself l haven't tried N either, so who's to say?

My own view is that this method was kickstarted by a user on here, much like the shallow water blackout and the sn with dmso. They're all weird addendums to tried and tested methods (hanging, drowning, sn respectively) with no evidence to say they are any more effective beyond a few posts on here, so l tend to stay clear, but if they work for you then fine, not going to dissuade you.
Apologies if I sounded rude. Its just I’ve spent a lot of time with this method and even hurting myself in the process especially because I have nerve problems in my neck. So it’s a hard pill to swallow for me when I hear someone say something wrong with the method.

Granted I agree with you since it was concocted by a member on here, but I believe it can work. Again if simple hanging can work then I don’t see why this wouldn’t. So let’s agree to disagree. Again apologies Chinaski.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
Apologies if I sounded rude. Its just I’ve spent a lot of time with this method and even hurting myself in the process especially because I have nerve problems in my neck. So it’s a hard pill to swallow for me when I hear someone say something wrong with the method.

Granted I agree with you since it was concocted by a member on here, but I believe it can work. Again if simple hanging can work then I don’t see why this wouldn’t. So let’s agree to disagree. Again apologies Chinaski.


I don't think anyone here is trying to make you feel bad. Harm reduction is the goal of this community. If you find this method more suitable then you should follow your gut. My personal view is to make the process as seamless and simple as possible. Since ctb is already hard enough in the first place.
 
hermes

hermes

Student
Jun 4, 2021
157
Apart from regulators, workshops, PPH/EI forums, rebreather scam (calling it scam based on many posts here) and Sarco stunt etc he also seeks Donations(which maybe OK) and Bequests 😯 (which is not OK)

Vulnerable dying old people would oblige to include him in their Will. That's exploiting the vulnerable.

This to me is ridiculous given he is charging for everything from regulators, to test kits, PPH book.
He surely gets a cut from D. Gets a cut from Pegasos. He gets a cut from Debreather sales etc

Contrast PN with non-profit organization "Compassion and Choices".
They review medical records and send volunteers home to help with CTB using Nitrogen/Helium method - Free of Cost.
In all 50 states of US.

I hope somebody else comes up in this space who is more humane than PN
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
Apart from regulators, workshops, PPH/EI forums, rebreather scam (calling it scam based on many posts here) and Sarco stunt etc he also seeks Donations(which maybe OK) and Bequests 😯 (which is not OK)

Vulnerable dying old people would oblige to include him in their Will. That's exploiting the vulnerable.


That is fucked up. I never knew he requested to be included in people's wills. This is what happens when there is only one source. If the taboo around suicide and euthanasia was actually addressed, people would not have to resort to this. Desperation is what fuels these scam artists.
 
hermes

hermes

Student
Jun 4, 2021
157
That is fucked up. I never knew he requested to be included in people's wills. This is what happens when there is only one source. If the taboo around suicide and euthanasia was actually addressed, people would not have to resort to this. Desperation is what fuels these scam artists.
 

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blueclover_.

blueclover_.

Better Never to Have Been: 2006, David Benatar
Oct 11, 2021
377
I think a lot of people who visit this forum and find PPH (The Peaceful Pill Handbook ) should be a little careful and take his words with a pinch of salt.

First we have to understand that Philip Nitschke do this to earn money, not to help people.

I think it's against the rules to share links. But a good example is his regulators. He buy really cheap oxygen regulators replace the inlet connection and put a sticker on them and sell them super expensive. The producer of these regulators also sell suitable nitrogen regulators with the correct fitting, but they are more expensive (less profit)

He spread false information, he give impression that his product for asphyxiation (Rebreather) is a safe and peaceful way to die. I will not discuss why in this thread, I'm sure it's already discussed in other threads on this forum, if not I could start another thread where we discuss it if anyone is interested. And just to be clear, I don't say it wouldn't work, but it's certainly not a safe way.

In recent versions of PPH a supplier for powdered short acting barbiturates is shared, this show that Nitschke is either very stupid or just reckless. I can see how a desperate person could find this reseller by accident and get scammed, but selling a "book" for suicide and sharing something that just screams scammer is a sign of low intelligence.

(I will not share the source) Right now that market is down. There might be a mirror that works, but the regular address is down.

Why is it a scammer?

1. No verified sales of this product.
2. 4-5 (last time I looked) reviews from other sold products and they use the same word and look like they are written by the same person.
3. They say they ship from Europe, but the shipping times doesn't make sense when compared to that couriers shipping options.
4. The description of their products have a very typical scam text.

Does this mean that it's 100% certain it's a scammer? No of course not, but people who understand how these markets work can see that it's very likely, and sharing it to desperate people as a know (reliable?) source and to a lot of people who in many case have barely no idea what darknet markets, pgp encryption, bitcoin is, that's not something that give me a good impression of Nitschke and his little "take advantage of desperate people business"

Sorry for bad grammar and typos. English is not my native language.
I've said this and will say it again. Philip Nitschke is a fraud.
 
Depressed_Kettle

Depressed_Kettle

Student
Apr 25, 2021
195
I don’t trust this guy. He’s in it to make money. Sure he might be trying to advance society but he’s not going about it the right way. His forum is like an old man’s club being 50+. I don’t know much about him but he seems to only support physical ailments and doesn’t really look at mental problems. He also focuses on 50+ as if that’s the only age people should be allowed to kill them self.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
I doubt that. Otherwise there would be more channels to obtain N

There is good money to be made selling N. I am assuming most people don't know what N is or that there is a hungry market for it.

Man that would be nice to just walk to a pharmacy and pick up bottles of Halatal over the counter like this one user from Peru.

 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,451
His book isn’t written well either, it seems lacking. (Though probably better than what I could do)

Nice SN pun there
The book only exists to circulate the contact of a drug dealer. This is the only reason people rush for the updates etc. His book is very badly written, typos everywhere etc, because it doesn't *need* to be well-written, literally nobody reads that shit beyond the N procurement bits.
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
The book only exists to circulate the contact of a drug dealer. This is the only reason people rush for the updates etc. His book is very badly written, typos everywhere etc, because it doesn't *need* to be well-written, literally nobody reads that shit beyond the N procurement bits.

I wonder what you have to do to get approved by Nitschke and the Exit organization as an official source. I am sure product and money is being exchanged for becoming listed on the PPH. The more I read about Exit the sketchier they sound.
 
Depressed_Kettle

Depressed_Kettle

Student
Apr 25, 2021
195
The book only exists to circulate the contact of a drug dealer. This is the only reason people rush for the updates etc. His book is very badly written, typos everywhere etc, because it doesn't *need* to be well-written, literally nobody reads that shit beyond the N procurement bits.
I feel bad, I actually read a bit about his grading levels which BTW the percentages are wrong. I thought the idea was interesting that he may have actually put that much effort into grading each option but then it was poorly formatted. Maybe I missed the nice tidy chart listing each option and his grade of them. I only got so far into reading it.

A lot of people probably only read for the N or SN, you’re right.
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Perchance to dream
Sep 1, 2018
1,451
I wonder what you have to do to get approved by Nitschke and the Exit organization as an official source. I am sure product and money is being exchanged for becoming listed on the PPH. The more I read about Exit the sketchier they sound.

I'm not too sure about this, but a few years back a big scam went around, apparently some lad called 'Patrick' shipping N from Europe. This initially got through the exit forums and ended up here afterwards; the Exit types had tentatively approved this scammer and it was users here who saw him off. This left Exit looking a tad sheepish, but also suggests they are happy to accommodate new N vendors because this increases their profit re pph. SN came about the same way, and now there's a barely vetted powder vendor in town. This suggests to me that vendors approach PN for inclusion as the pph is their principle advertiser, and PN is happy to oblige because this advertisement generates his income. We obviously rely on the pph to a degree as it's the only way we know a vendor delivers, so we're stuck with him, but is worth remembering how the previous D was still included despite being a scammr for a year, how A has only just been removed, how a scanner penetrated the exit forum and got their initial endorsement etc - he's always on the look out for a new grift to flog his poxy book and yeah, sketchy as hell imo.
 
P

PeacefulTonic

Wizard
Aug 10, 2021
637
There is good money to be made selling N. I am assuming most people don't know what N is or that there is a hungry market for it.

Man that would be nice to just walk to a pharmacy and pick up bottles of Halatal over the counter like this one user from Peru.

There definitely is money to be made. But is there a hungry market for it? Not in comparison to the rest of the drug market. There’s almost 270 million drug users globally, and in comparison, 800k people ctb a year. I don’t think the money is there when compared to the profit that’s generated off of the other drugs. That’s why we only have one source in the entire world
 
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
878
I'm not too sure about this, but a few years back a big scam went around, apparently some lad called 'Patrick' shipping N from Europe. This initially got through the exit forums and ended up here afterwards; the Exit types had tentatively approved this scammer and it was users here who saw him off. This left Exit looking a tad sheepish, but also suggests they are happy to accommodate new N vendors because this increases their profit re pph. SN came about the same way, and now there's a barely vetted powder vendor in town. This suggests to me that vendors approach PN for inclusion as the pph is their principle advertiser, and PN is happy to oblige because this advertisement generates his income. We obviously rely on the pph to a degree as it's the only way we know a vendor delivers, so we're stuck with him, but is worth remembering how the previous D was still included despite being a scammr for a year, how A has only just been removed, how a scanner penetrated the exit forum and got their initial endorsement etc - he's always on the look out for a new grift to flog his poxy book and yeah, sketchy as hell imo.

Wow I did not know the entire backstory of Exit. It is worse than I thought. I guess that is what happens when there is only one source for information.

There definitely is money to be made. But is there a hungry market for it? Not in comparison to the rest of the drug market. There’s almost 270 million drug users globally, and in comparison, 800k people ctb a year. I don’t think the money is there when compared to the profit that’s generated off of the other drugs. That’s why we only have one source in the entire world

I think there will always be market for life ending drugs. If you live in places like Mexico or Peru it is easy to obtain and all you have to do is ship it out. It is good money for not a lot of work. Especially in those parts of the world where the cost of living is low. I am guessing most people don't even know this is an option. You don't even need to do dangerous or super risky stuff like with traditional drug trafficking. But you are right it pales in comparison to the narcotic drug market.
 
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it's_all_a_game

it's_all_a_game

I remember...death in the afternoon...
Nov 7, 2020
359
He is a super shady, mercenary guy & not at all the proper activist for the right to die IMHO.
 
blueclover_.

blueclover_.

Better Never to Have Been: 2006, David Benatar
Oct 11, 2021
377
The book only exists to circulate the contact of a drug dealer. This is the only reason people rush for the updates etc. His book is very badly written, typos everywhere etc, because it doesn't *need* to be well-written, literally nobody reads that shit beyond the N procurement bits.
b u r n e d

Facts doe.
 
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Lovequenel

Lovequenel

Warlock
Sep 21, 2020
778
Don't say it...don't say it...breathe...breathe...

[ TLDR: he and the insiders of his organization are probably scum buckets and are maniacally obsessed, potentially dangerous people but what can we do about it, especially since we're at the point where all we want to do is find peace by getting ourselves to die in a quick and painless manner. So I'm still glad it's doing what it's doing because otherwise I wouldn't be able to control the ending of what has been a horrible life. Fair and square? Absolutely not but better than nothing. Now, there's still that same old question of whether things would have happened to provide the same service in an infinitely more ethical and less nefarious manner if other people / orgs had the same resources/voice and hadn't been demoted in favor of PN/EI...but who cares at this point: we lost the game of life and/or we're physically destroyed and just need to take that final nap and find peace. This world was never a good place anyway. As for the healthy, life-embracing winners...they may want to revisit that question for future generations. But I'm done. ]

Okay. I won't say it. But I've thought a lot about it because it's just sad and kind of tears me in different directions because I too want to promote a culture that manages death differently (even if most - but ironically not the real movers and shakers - have justifiably lost religion). I want to see a generalized accepted culture that even goes beyond that by embracing if not celebrating suicide. It's just that I know PN, Movers, Shakers & Co are doing it in with a different spirit for different reasons that I would normally never support.

So I will just say that I suspected early on and then quickly realized exactly who and what he is that makes all the difference (as usual...) but unfortunately (and again, as is usually the case...) he is now the only guy with a voice and a well-oiled operation. He and his 'people' (EI and others...i guess) have sort of taken the whole 'right to die' thing over from within...no comment. He's the face of all of it all over the world as well...no accident imo. And while I think I know exactly who and what he is and who and what he and his organization's intelligentia are working for and toward what kind of imho mentally ill goal (*shudders*), I'm still just glad this sad planet eventually defecated him into existence so that there is at least a way out...even if it too, had to be corrupted by the same old crowd, just like every other fucking good faith attempt by humanity to improve the world. Well hey, at least this time the corruption of what little good faith humanity still has takes the form of helping to gtf out of that very same horrible world. So, much as I don't have a high opinion of him (and I know, there are nuances, there's individuals and there's collective pressures, it's more complicated etc...but not that complicated when you actually look into it...) I'm still glad EI is doing what it's doing...regardless of whatever else it's also doing...and why...

I guess I rambled a bit...that's what happens when you want to say things but know you won't be allowed to. Anyway.

Why did he open a new assisted death clinic in Switzerland and why is it called Pegasos? It's just a question. I'm just curious. Anyway. I don't even care at this point. I mean, it's not even relevant to me since I'm literally writing on a suicide forum. I hope to be able to verify purity and potency of what I need and to then acquire accompanying elements to enable it to happen. I do believe it is more reasonable, if you're not a risk-taker, to include an appropriate painkiller to many of the methods, including N. I'll be happy to stand corrected on that by anyone with scientific expertise but it just seems safer.

PN should be more responsible and make things more accessible to economically disadvantaged people though and I'm actually surprised about that bequest thing even being tolerated legally...but then again, based on what and who I believe he is, it's not so surprising. Hopefully he'll stop doing that stuff but in the meantime I hope suffering people can get what they need in a society that won't or perhaps at this late stage can't really help them any other way. Hey, you can't stop progress. May we all find peace.
 
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F

FromGermany

Experienced
Oct 23, 2021
203
Hi @FromGermany, if possible could you please provide the references-links you cite here? (the studies and the competitor who recommend ≥20 lpm)
Study of Hamilton WK, Eastwood DW, "To completely replace expired air, and thus insure the highest possible concentration of helium, the flow rate of added gas (helium), has been determined to be a volume of at least two and one half times the subject's minute volume. This would be true with either the bag and mask as used by Dignitas, or with the use of a large hood."

This also applies to Nitrogen.
10 Liters x 2.5 = 25 Liters / Minute

Derek Humphry, Final Exit 2020, "For the nitrogen method set the nitrogen regulator outlet gauge at 20 liters per minute (LPM)."

Also, only a 2 stage regulator will ensure a stable flow for the tank. An ordinary 1 stage premium regulator with a flowmeter will also do the job as long as there is at least a 10 Liter Nitrogen bottle (10 x 200 = 2.000 Liter) and a purity of at least 2.8 of the gas.