• Hey Visitor,

    In light of recent events, all community members in the US should reach out to their representative in regards to the Stop Online Suicide Assistance Forums Act that has been introduced in congress. This bill, if passed, could criminalize this community and hold it liable for simply hosting information.

    You should be able to locate and contact your represenative by going to this website. You can also contact Lori Trahan, the one spearheading this bill by calling her office at (202) 225-3411 or by leaving a message on the contact form on her site.

    One of the best ways to combat this is to make your voice heard. We're not political activists, but we made this notice to let you know that you do have a voice and that you do have representives that represent you in congress.
A

affinity

Member
Oct 8, 2021
52
You say he wasn't presented any sort of help, but you, a member of SaSu, knew him. Didn't you, yourself, tried to help him?

To be fair, his join date is literally just yesterday (Nov 21) and unless I’m misreading the OP the young person we are discussing committed suicide on Friday (Nov 18).
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
1,268
To be a bit harsh, I think that's a price worth paying. I think it's more important to ensure as few people as possible kill themselves even if it means other people will sometimes have to feel a bit bad because they'd they're being asked to talk to someone and they'd rather not.

Balance of harm falls pretty strongly in favour of protection, IMO.
I respect your viewpoint but I suppose my own viewpoint on life is too negatively skewed to believe I could convincingly help someone that doesn't want to be helped. I don't want to be 'helped' or 'saved' myself.

I don't think it's my place to judge what constitutes a good reason for someone to want to kill themselves. I doubt you'd find my reasonings sound but to be quite honest- I don't care. My life belongs to me.

Having said that, I will ABSOLUTELY encourage a person if they show ANY signs that there might be another path for them other than to end it but I'm not working for a suicide prevention society.

I am suicidal myself. I came to terms with that years ago. I am only hanging on for my family. I don't have a problem with suicide amongst adults. Not to say I encourage it but I believe it is that persons right to choose- it is their life, only they know how much pain they are in and how much they can stand. It's only them that can weigh up their hurt against the hurt they will cause if they go ahead with it.

It is also their choice whether they want to seek out help- most people do realise it's available. You only have to type in suicide and a whole page of helplines appear. @SpentStardust would have seen all of those resources numerous times when he was online. If he chose not to make use of them then, do you think anyone here could convince him to?

I believe it is permitted to join this site as someone who is not suicidal themselves but wants to talk about these themes and provide support. I imagine these types of people would be far more effective than me.

Having said all that- I absolutely think there should be more barriers in place to prevent children from accessing sites like this. I don't know if parental locks work on a site like this? (In which case- why weren't they active on his phone and computer?)

I suppose I'm curious- if you were in charge here- how would you assertain who gets permission to access the site and who doesn't? What qualifies as a good enough reason to access a site like this and what proof would you ask for?

In all honesty, I would like for you to ask a few members here to open up to see how much you feel you would be able to help them. You could well be right- that some people might respond well to the offer of support but I think in the majority of cases, your 'help' won't be appreciated.

I'm sorry if you find my views offensive. Like I say- I'm certainly not pro-suicide for anyone but myself but I do believe other adults should have the right of autonomy over their own lives- unless they are clearly unable to think for themselves.
 
S

SamTam33

Experienced
Oct 9, 2022
282
Well, looks like OP is banned. Not sure what that's about.
How can you tell? I assumed he asked for his account to be deactivated because he was getting too much heat. "I may or may not come back to read replies" 🙄
well guess i better ctb on saturday like i planned before i get doxxed for saying we didn’t do anything wrong and asking for suicidal people not to be called lazy
Before you ctb...Let me ask you some questions:

How old are you? REALLY? We demand the truth.

Have you tried inhaling the calming scents of lavender and eucalyptus? Aromatherapy can save lives.

Convince me that you've sought all possible treatment and please provide a list of all the professionals you've spoken to so we can reach a consensus about the validity of your intention to ctb.

Important: you are not to take any ctb actions until further notice.
 
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W

whywere

Enlightened
Jun 26, 2020
1,921
Well, where does one start with this? I will give background on myself, so folks know where I have been and what I have been through.

I am 66, 2 attempts, 72 holds, hospitalizations and zero childhood, "parents" HATED me from day 1 till they kicked me out at 18. 100% them as far as they did not want two boys, just a boy and a girl family.

So, with that out of the way here it goes:

1st, I have been on SS for a little over 2 years and I feel, this is just me, that the powers that be here try their darndest to keep folks under 18 years old off of here. With this, duh! being electronic and not in person there always will be a crack to get through around. The folks here are fantastic period.

2nd, I am NOT pro anything, and with that said I in the past have read a soul's post and sent them a response trying to cheer them up and they still went through with ctb. Now I am NOT anything special, but I tried and with that said it still comes down to personal choice. Yes mental health aspect does come into play, BUT me and hopefully I am not stepping on any toes here, we all have our own thoughts and opinions on any subject matter and still it is up to the individual.

3rd, when I tried, especially the second time, I had a large contingent of mental health folks working with me and I still tried, up to me. Like I said previously I try my hardest to help folks on here to at least see that ctb is one and done.

4th, I feel that if anything SS, with all the awesome souls here works the other direction as far as helping to keep folks from ctb overall. Without SS, I might have tried the 3rd time but now I have a family and friends here and just that aspect alone is everything to me.


In conclusion, we all make our own choices, with the aspect of mental health included, and to paint with a HUGE brush stroke that SS is all about death is wrong. It is about life.

Walter
 
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Rounded Apathy

Rounded Apathy

Longing to return to stardust
Aug 8, 2022
729
@SamTam33 - there was previously a strikeout through their name's text; oddly enough it's now gone and they have been active since.

Well, where does one start with is? I will give background on myself, so folks know where I have been and what I have been through.

I am 66, 2 attempts, 72 holds, hospitalizations and zero childhood, "parents" HATED me from day 1 till they kicked me out at 18. 100% them as far as they did not want to boys, just a boy and a girl family.

So, with that out of the way here it goes:

1st, I have been on SS for a little over 2 years and I feel, this is just me, that the powers that be here try their darndest to keep folks under 18 years old off of here. With this, duh! being electronic and not in person there always will be a crack to get through around. The folks here are fantastic period.

2nd, I am NOT pro anything, and with that said I in the past have read a soul's post and sent them a response trying to cheer them up and they still went through with ctb. Now I am NOT anything special, but I tried and with that said it still comes down to personal choice. Yes mental health aspect does come into play, BUT me and hopefully I am not stepping on any toes here, we all have our own thoughts and opinions on any subject matter and still it is up to the individual.

3rd, when I tried, especially the second time, I had a large contingent of mental health folks working with me and I still tried, up to me. Like I said previously I try my hardest help folks on here to at least see that ctb is one and done.

4th, I feel that if anything SS, with all the awesome souls here works the other direction as far as helping to keep folks from ctb overall. Without SS, I might have tried the 3rd time but now I have a family and friends here and just that aspect alone is everything to me.


In conclusion, we all make our own choices, with the aspect of mental health included, and to paint with a HUGE brush stroke that SS is all about death is wrong. It is about life.

Walter
As usual, Walter adds and is an example of the absolutely living positivity on this forum, as well as the truth of the complex nature of suicidality and making attempts on one's life. @Jonels - I implore you to consider this tale, and subsequently how many more people may well be living this reality in silence.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
1,905
To put it simply: just because you are certain that you want to die doesn't mean you should be certain that others should die too.
I don't think I ever interacted with @SpentStardust but I'm very sorry for your loss. I agree that this outcome is disastrous, and it is worth our time to investigate how to learn from it.

Despite being very reliant on this community myself, there are aspects of it that I am decidedly critical of. Some people who come here are obviously young and clearly lacking in clarity about their situations. Some have been mistreated and think that they are themselves to blame. Some are simply feeling apathetic and lacking in motivation to push on. Many secretly want to recover and can potentially be steered in that direction.

The lack of judgement in these cases is literally a grave error which, in this culture, is hard to talk about without activating the slippery slope of blocking all suicides for rational-minded adults. Whenever I detect a situation like this, I try and walk the fine line between supporting them expressing their feelings, and giving them a starting point for a possible recovery, such as possible overlooked psychological diagnoses or practical information. My posts of this nature rarely get 'likes' because they are designed to gently challenge people and go against the flow of the echo chamber.

The change that I would like to see is a proper pro-choice mindset which makes clear the seriousness of death and the options for recovery that may have been overlooked. Accepting the reality of suicide needs to be in the picture as a last resort (this is where wider society fails spectacularly and necessitates communities like this). The prevailing echo chamber also includes a nihilistic philosophy combining atheism, 'proof' of no afterlife, the meaninglessness of life, etc. which amounts to the blind leading the blind.

Having said all that, let's look at the other side of the story.

When people lie about their age in order to sign up, then immediately delve into method talk, there can be no opportunity to assess their situation. Some young people make their first post about how to tie a knot. Others will rant about their parents or something, and only then it is possible to glean that abuse has taken place and incorporate practical suggestions in a reply.

Another challenge is the vast number of new posts. Replying to a random, presumably young person in distress with a well-researched reply that ticks all the boxes can easily take me half an hour, and in most cases is ultimately unsuccessful because of the state that they are already in by the time they arrive here. By contrast, the copy-and-paste nihilistic-philosophy posts take little effort and end up dominating the culture here.

It appears that that despite his immense talents and positive friendships, he had suffered with suicidal ideation from a young age. To my knowledge, nothing is known about what caused this. It could be abuse, mental illness or something else. It cannot be known if he was open to recovery, or if phoning some generic hotline would have made a difference to the outcome, or what actions he had taken previously.

In summary, it takes many failures at many levels - possibly including parenting, schooling, culture, society - to lead to a tragic outcome like this. This website's hardened culture of dismissiveness towards recovery options for young people is a painfully valid critique, though not one that delegitimises the very existence of the community. Nor is it appropriate to place blame squarely upon the site without considering countless other events leading up to that point. But can we do better, and should we? Yes.
 
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GasMonkey

GasMonkey

N₂ SCBA Master Race
May 15, 2022
438
I think there should be a protocol for determining a few things when new people announce they want to kill themselves:

1. Is the person under age?
2. Has the person ever taken steps to try and receive treatment?
3. Had the person ever spoken to a professional?
So you want admins to ask new members for proof of that 3 points before they join the forum? 😆
 
👁

👁️👃👁️

Enlightened
Aug 14, 2022
1,178
@Jonels
You have good intentions bud. No hard feelings. I see where you're coming from. You have to try to see where we're coming from also. I wanted to add that everyone thinks that we are some clique but we are all just a bunch of people from around the world who happened to be going through similar things/feelings
We are not some cult or some secret society that has special group meetings behind the scenes. What you see on the public forum is what it is. (I'm not even sure why I'm even saying that it's completely irrelevant)

Anyway a lot of the times a lot of us do ask people if they have exhausted all options and try to get help. Many of the people who join this website are at a point where they don't care about any of that anymore and they literally just want to go.
If someone really wants to die they're going to do it. There's not really much we can do to save someone they have to try to save themselves. All we can do is offer support and resources that may help them. We are not saviors and we're all going through our own problems as well.
 
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W

well2hell

Student
Nov 6, 2022
106
I don't think I ever interacted with @SpentStardust but I'm very sorry for your loss. I agree that this outcome is disastrous, and it is worth our time to investigate how to learn from it.

Despite being very reliant on this community myself, there are aspects of it that I am decidedly critical of. Some people who come here are obviously young and clearly lacking in clarity about their situations. Some have been mistreated and think that they are themselves to blame. Some are simply feeling apathetic and lacking in motivation to push on. Many secretly want to recover and can potentially be steered in that direction.

The lack of judgement in these cases is literally a grave error which, in this culture, is hard to talk about without activating the slippery slope of blocking all suicides for rational-minded adults. Whenever I detect a situation like this, I try and walk the fine line between supporting them expressing their feelings, and giving them a starting point for a possible recovery, such as possible overlooked psychological diagnoses or practical information. My posts of this nature rarely get 'likes' because they are designed to gently challenge people and go against the flow of the echo chamber.

The change that I would like to see is a proper pro-choice mindset which makes clear the seriousness of death and the options for recovery that may have been overlooked. Accepting the reality of suicide needs to be in the picture as a last resort (this is where wider society fails spectacularly and necessitates communities like this). The prevailing echo chamber also includes a nihilistic philosophy combining atheism, 'proof' of no afterlife, the meaninglessness of life, etc. which amounts to the blind leading the blind.

Having said all that, let's look at the other side of the story.

When people lie about their age in order to sign up, then immediately delve into method talk, there can be no opportunity to assess their situation. Some young people make their first post about how to tie a knot. Others will rant about their parents or something, and only then it is possible to glean that abuse has taken place and incorporate practical suggestions in a reply.

Another challenge is the vast number of new posts. Replying to a random, presumably young person in distress with a well-researched reply that ticks all the boxes can easily take me half an hour, and in most cases is ultimately unsuccessful because of the state that they are already in by the time they arrive here. By contrast, the copy-and-paste nihilistic-philosophy posts take little effort and end up dominating the culture here.

It appears that that despite his immense talents and positive friendships, he had suffered with suicidal ideation from a young age. To my knowledge, nothing is known about what caused this. It could be abuse, mental illness or something else. It cannot be known if he was open to recovery, or if phoning some generic hotline would have made a difference to the outcome, or what actions he had taken previously.

In summary, it takes many failures at many levels - possibly including parenting, schooling, culture, society - to lead to a tragic outcome like this. This website's hardened culture of dismissiveness towards recovery options for young people is a painfully valid critique, though not one that delegitimises the very existence of the community. Nor is it appropriate to place blame squarely upon the site without considering countless other events leading up to that point. But can we do better, and should we? Yes.
Perhaps the most sensible and balanced assessment about Sanctioned Suicide I have had the opportunity to read (among a few other good ones on this thread).

Thank you for taking the time to write your thoughts down, @Pluto.
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
2,874
Perhaps the most sensible and balanced assessment about Sanctioned Suicide I have had the opportunity to read (among a few other good ones on this thread).

Thank you for taking the time to write your thoughts down, @Pluto.
Agreed, this is the most reasoned and considered response in this thread by some distance imo.
 
stilhavinightmares

stilhavinightmares

Member
Oct 13, 2022
82
We are not saviors and we're all going through our own problems as well.
OP, I respect where you are coming from, completely. I even agree with you on most of what you said. I appreciate your efforts and sharing your thoughts and ideas.

However, above. If we are assuming this child who successfully k*lled himself was not of sound mind when posting on this site, how could we ever assume any other single person posting on this website is of sound mind? We are all suffering too. Putting even an ounce of burden and blame on the other users of this website for not “saving” this boy is unfair.

I hope his loved ones and everyone whose life he touched can find an inkling of peace in any way. ❤️
 
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Rounded Apathy

Rounded Apathy

Longing to return to stardust
Aug 8, 2022
729
Because I have nothing better to do...

A reminder to everyone - including @Jonels : among normal trauma responses are trying to "solve/figure out" the reasons for tragedy. When you find out that someone who's just taken their own life had been spending time on a suicide forum, well...you can believe that's gonna look a lot like the reason to someone looking in from outside. I say this having lost someone to suicide who was much, much closer to me than SpentStardust was (or appears to have been; apologies if a false assumption) to OP.

Speaking of which: a recent thread of incredible tact started by the mother of another member who passed. Helpful in my opinion for OP to see.
 
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blackwidow

blackwidow

Road to nowhere
Aug 12, 2022
120
I want to tell a little story and then make a non-judgmental appeal at the end.

My online persona is Tantacrul. I have a reasonably large YouTube following and I also run an open source music program called MuseScore. On Friday evening, a colleague of mine alerted me to a user called System64, who had posted some music on his YouTube channel (using the application that my team develops), which was intended to be his 'last piece'. Along with this was a video he posted where he informed us that he was intending on ending his life.

You people know this user as SpentStardust.

The moment we read this, we started searching around to figure out who this kid was and whether we had any information about him. Long story short, we found his final post here, which gave us a few more clues - and a few hours later, we discovered that we were too late. He had already taken his own life in an incredibly shocking and violent way (via train).

After this, I began searching to see whether there had been any direct interactions between myself and System 64 / SpentStardust, because his nickname rang a bell. Sure enough, he had commented a lot on posts of mine on Twitter, and had also been a member of my Discord server. I then realised that I had actually spoken to him directly one time, when he played his compositions during a listening session on my server, which we do every two weeks. My impression of him? Lovely. Sweet. Super clued-in to technology and composition. A very smart 17 year old kid who seemed really grateful whenever anyone complemented him. I also searched through his comment history in forums where I have also been present. My findings? He has never once said anything pessimistic, indicative of depression or even vaguely negative. He just seemed chirpy, generally excitable and a little bit quiet.

Obviously, if there's one audience on the planet where I don't feel I need to go into detail about the difference between outward public behaviour and internal thought processes, it's this one. So I'll spare you that info.

However:

There is one thing that really does bother me. In a previous conversation on this forum a month or two ago, System 64 / SpentStardust began posting about his intentions to kill himself. Along they way, he let one thing slip that no one seemed to pick up on.

He said that he had never told anyone about his intentions to commit suicide and was afraid that if he did, that person might try to stop him. Since I come from a family with plenty of mental health specialists and psychologists, this is the the reddest of red flags.

A 17 year old kid, who has never discussed suicide with anyone decides he is going to kill himself. The only people he tells are on this forum. And the advice he is given is.... nothing. It is assumed that because he has had the idea to kill himself, it is definitely legitimate. The echo chamber has reflected their own feelings back to him. No one has thought to say 'perhaps speak to a suicide hotline anonymously - that way they are unable to stop you'. No one considers whether he is having a psychological breakdown due to stress, or loss or any other reason. Everyone assumes it he is of sound mind.

When I read this discussion, what I saw was a single moment in time where System 64 / SpentStardust - who was a very talented kid - a kid with a computer science scholarship, a player and a composer, who had a wide network of friends online who he played games with and created videos with - finally making his inner thoughts known to a group of people - letting them know that he had not sought out any advice from anyone who might have given him another perspective - and that group of people said 'yeah, do it'.

I think you can probably figure out my appeal. It's not harsh. It's about as simple as it could be:

Because I've read many times on this forum over the last few days that this is not a 'pro death' site, I think there should be a protocol for determining a few things when new people announce they want to kill themselves:

1. Is the person under age?
2. Has the person ever taken steps to try and receive treatment?
3. Had the person ever spoken to a professional?

Asking these questions, and providing basic advice to the effect of "you should really consider this carefully. At least speak to someone anonymously" could have made all the difference.

As much as I imagine people on this forum will hate me saying this - it is actually possible for some people to overcome suicidal ideation and lead a relatively peaceful life. I'm not saying you will. But, statistically speaking, some other people on this forum definitely will.

There is no good reason on an anonymous
I agree with every you've said. All valid points. One thing I have observed on here is never to presume we know a thing about the OP... which makes it Really difficult to gauge what they are feeling or thinking... when you say things like maybe think a little more or have you thought this through... you get jumped on by some members.. this boy at 17 is heart wrenching and for me is food for thought on ways to talk to people when they reach out. thank you for that.
 
DarkFriend.

DarkFriend.

Neverending Suffering
May 1, 2022
18
How naive.

This is the one place we have.

The one place where we can go and see the other side--where philosophies sometimes collide, yes, but where unadulterated voices subsist.

I understand that some would consider such an event to be tragic, but there is beauty in tragedy.

Whether it actually is a tragedy is debatable.
 
Seiko

Seiko

"Nothing's gonna hurt you, baby."
Jul 9, 2021
114
First off—I'm so sorry for your loss. Losing someone close to you hurts, and it takes courage to come here addressing the people you've thought might've helped him. And I seriously doubt your post will be removed; we get challenged all the time, and it makes for some tremendously nuanced conversations. That being said, I think you might've misconstrued the intent of this forum—and many of your questions can be answered here.

Asking these questions, and providing basic advice to the effect of "you should really consider this carefully. At least speak to someone anonymously" could have made all the difference.

We're past that—and offering the suicide hotline or recovery resources to someone who doesn't want it typically feels like a social sanction. If you're considering a sovereign decision so serious as suicide, this is one of the only places you can talk about it past the barriers of virtue-signaling or preaching. Chances are, if a person comes here, the last thing they want to hear is the same mantras repeated endlessly.

it is actually possible for some people to overcome suicidal ideation and lead a relatively peaceful life.

And a portion of this website is dedicated to overcoming ideation, where we do provide mental health recovery and resources. The forum's intent isn't to discourage or encourage suicide; it's to emphasize those with ideations and offer a judgment-free place without fears of inpatient commitment or outcasting. In many cases, providing this taboo-free place often leads to recovery, as you can't openly talk about suicide with a therapist or family member without them "helping."

1. Is the person under age?
2. Has the person ever taken steps to try and receive treatment?
3. Had the person ever spoken to a professional?

If you signed up for an account—you'd already know that we don't allow any minors, and with any site, it's especially hard to verify age without intrusive ID uploading. Regarding your other questions, I have one question: what difference would it make? A good number of people here have been through counseling and therapy sessions—sometimes mandated—as well as inpatient treatment and antidepressant medication. And those same people still here come back to one conclusion: it doesn't help.

The popular train of thought of "therapy and medication—it works wonders!" doesn't help those who it didn't help.
 
jamie_

jamie_

emotionally abused from loving a narcissist
May 21, 2022
192
Nor is it appropriate to place blame squarely upon the site without considering countless other events leading up to that point.

In summary, it takes many failures at many levels - possibly including parenting, schooling, culture, society - to lead to a tragic outcome like this.

among normal trauma responses are trying to "solve/figure out" the reasons for tragedy.

The first two quotes are so important to remember, the final quote is perhaps the reason why it is so hard to do so. I honestly dislike this site more than I like it and I can completely resonate with OP's critiques not to mention the awful tragedy. However, I do feel sad at what was essentially a "you killed this kid" attack line – in particular the awful "Me – 0 minors killed, SS – 1 minor killed" reply. I hate that I am on this site and I am aware of its nature, but here I am. It makes me feel shittier about myself when the site usually gives me a bit of relief, but I do thank OP for bringing it to our attention.
 
ge0rge

ge0rge

the satanic mechanic
Jul 29, 2018
546
How naive.

This is the one place we have.

The one place where we can go and see the other side--where philosophies sometimes collide, yes, but where unadulterated voices subsist.

I understand that some would consider such an event to be tragic, but there is beauty in tragedy.

Whether it actually is a tragedy is debatable.

you've been consuming way too much anime. your neckbeard is showing
 
Low_Spectre

Low_Spectre

adrift
Jan 20, 2021
17
You’re right and you should say it. I noticed something off about his posts right away. When he linked his YouTube and I saw his announcement video, the frantic comments from his friends were clearly written by youths. Gaming accounts saying “system bro please msg me back”. I reached out to him via message and he didn’t answer but I had a terrible feeling in my stomach all evening. The way folks just told this kid “go in peace” when he was pretty obviously not in a place of no return: a kid with interests, hobbies, talents, and friends willing to help in any way they can. I recognize the value of the kind of non judgemental peer support people find here but ignoring the fact that there are impressionable teenagers present who are looking for confirmation that life won’t ever improve for them is irresponsible and fucked up.
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
2,874
Some of the replies to this thread have been impressively measured, balanced, honest, reflective and have treated this person's passing with the appropriate respect. Others have been pretty embarrassing tbh, and I really hope the better responses aren't going to be ultimately drowned out by a torrent of cringe.
 
willitpass

willitpass

Wizard
Mar 10, 2020
675
Some of the replies to this thread have been impressively measured, balanced, honest, reflective and have treated this person's passing with the appropriate respect. Others have been pretty embarrassing tbh, and I really hope the better responses aren't going to be ultimately drowned out by a torrent of cringe.
i want to know why people think it is helpful to attack the person who is coming here out of understandable grief. what point is that going to prove? not only are we already holding unpopular opinions that if we ever want to be taken seriously need to be had with level heads and respect, but this person is at the end of the day going through grief and deserves some compassion.
 
Exact Change

Exact Change

A life of mistakes
Nov 6, 2022
78
He said that he had never told anyone about his intentions to commit suicide and was afraid that if he did, that person might try to stop him. Since I come from a family with plenty of mental health specialists and psychologists, this is the the reddest of red flags.
Having family members with a professional knowledge does not inherently provide you with the same insight and qualifications.

So, this comment was the reddest red flag? Do you mean that being on Sasu isn't a red flag?

I think there are many on this site who do not openly share their ideas about suicide with friends, family, or even their therapist. That is why they find comfort here.

Lastly, I do not analyze or judge a person's post, motivations, or level of suffering. I am also not from a family of therapists where I can be clairvoyant based upon a single comment. I assume everyone here is suffering in some way. I respect their pain and the decisions.
People support each other here.
 
BornToFail

BornToFail

Student
Sep 9, 2022
193
Respectfully, I think minors 16+, should be able to ctb. I fully respect the forums rules, however. I read this site when I was 17 and joined as soon as I turned 18. I can't imagine having been told at 17 not to do it.
 
N

never mind me

Member
Nov 7, 2022
38
Although I can understand your distress about finding out that a 17 year old you know from the internet killed himself, I wonder why you choose to hang out in a pro choice forum, if you don't like the idea of people exchanging advice on methods to kill themselves? It also seems a bit weird to believe that someone who is still young has less valid reasons to commit suicide than someone who is older. From the outside the lives of many people who commit suicide may look pretty decent. But what's that worth, if it doesn't feel like it for the person who has to live this life?
As others have mentioned before: In many (if not all) countries it would not be possible to call a help line anonymously and talk about your thoughts of killing yourself without getting institutionalised. Where I live the worker in the helpline would be required by law to call the cops who in turn would try to get to the caller's location.
 
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hamvil

hamvil

Mage
Aug 29, 2022
561
I want to tell a little story and then make a non-judgmental appeal at the end.

My online persona is Tantacrul. I have a reasonably large YouTube following and I also run an open source music program called MuseScore. On Friday evening, a colleague of mine alerted me to a user called System64, who had posted some music on his YouTube channel (using the application that my team develops), which was intended to be his 'last piece'. Along with this was a video he posted where he informed us that he was intending on ending his life.

You people know this user as SpentStardust.

The moment we read this, we started searching around to figure out who this kid was and whether we had any information about him. Long story short, we found his final post here, which gave us a few more clues - and a few hours later, we discovered that we were too late. He had already taken his own life in an incredibly shocking and violent way (via train).

After this, I began searching to see whether there had been any direct interactions between myself and System 64 / SpentStardust, because his nickname rang a bell. Sure enough, he had commented a lot on posts of mine on Twitter, and had also been a member of my Discord server. I then realised that I had actually spoken to him directly one time, when he played his compositions during a listening session on my server, which we do every two weeks. My impression of him? Lovely. Sweet. Super clued-in to technology and composition. A very smart 17 year old kid who seemed really grateful whenever anyone complemented him. I also searched through his comment history in forums where I have also been present. My findings? He has never once said anything pessimistic, indicative of depression or even vaguely negative. He just seemed chirpy, generally excitable and a little bit quiet.

Obviously, if there's one audience on the planet where I don't feel I need to go into detail about the difference between outward public behaviour and internal thought processes, it's this one. So I'll spare you that info.

However:

There is one thing that really does bother me. In a previous conversation on this forum a month or two ago, System 64 / SpentStardust began posting about his intentions to kill himself. Along they way, he let one thing slip that no one seemed to pick up on.

He said that he had never told anyone about his intentions to commit suicide and was afraid that if he did, that person might try to stop him. Since I come from a family with plenty of mental health specialists and psychologists, this is the the reddest of red flags.

A 17 year old kid, who has never discussed suicide with anyone decides he is going to kill himself. The only people he tells are on this forum. And the advice he is given is.... nothing. It is assumed that because he has had the idea to kill himself, it is definitely legitimate. The echo chamber has reflected their own feelings back to him. No one has thought to say 'perhaps speak to a suicide hotline anonymously - that way they are unable to stop you'. No one considers whether he is having a psychological breakdown due to stress, or loss or any other reason. Everyone assumes it he is of sound mind.

When I read this discussion, what I saw was a single moment in time where System 64 / SpentStardust - who was a very talented kid - a kid with a computer science scholarship, a player and a composer, who had a wide network of friends online who he played games with and created videos with - finally making his inner thoughts known to a group of people - letting them know that he had not sought out any advice from anyone who might have given him another perspective - and that group of people said 'yeah, do it'.

I think you can probably figure out my appeal. It's not harsh. It's about as simple as it could be:

Because I've read many times on this forum over the last few days that this is not a 'pro death' site, I think there should be a protocol for determining a few things when new people announce they want to kill themselves:

1. Is the person under age?
2. Has the person ever taken steps to try and receive treatment?
3. Had the person ever spoken to a professional?

Asking these questions, and providing basic advice to the effect of "you should really consider this carefully. At least speak to someone anonymously" could have made all the difference.

As much as I imagine people on this forum will hate me saying this - it is actually possible for some people to overcome suicidal ideation and lead a relatively peaceful life. I'm not saying you will. But, statistically speaking, some other people on this forum definitely will.

There is no good reason on an anonymous forum why a few basic questions can't be asked to determine whether someone is a full grown adult and to find out whether this person has exhausted their options or not. A kid may not be aware of what their options are.

To put it simply: just because you are certain that you want to die doesn't mean you should be certain that others should die too.

I may or may not come back here to read replies. My guess is one of you will feel this is 'off topic' and ask a mod to take it down because you don't like being challenged. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps you can suck up constructive criticism.

Best,
Tantacrul

By the way, my mail is [email protected]

You ever want to talk. Even to tell me I'm a total fool. You are most welcome to do so and I won't give you any grief for it.
This is like going to a classical concert and complaining that they do not play k-pop.