• Hey Visitor,

    In light of recent events, all community members in the US should reach out to their representative in regards to the Stop Online Suicide Assistance Forums Act that has been introduced in congress. This bill, if passed, could criminalize this community and hold it liable for simply hosting information.

    You should be able to locate and contact your represenative by going to this website. You can also contact Lori Trahan, the one spearheading this bill by calling her office at (202) 225-3411 or by leaving a message on the contact form on her site.

    One of the best ways to combat this is to make your voice heard. We're not political activists, but we made this notice to let you know that you do have a voice and that you do have representives that represent you in congress.
S

sevenkarmas

Member
Oct 10, 2022
52
He has a YouTube channel... I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes a vid about all of this.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing this for views and subscribers. He had interactions with @SpentStardust. Did he promote System64's channel? I don't know and I refuse to watch any of his videos because I don't want him to benefit from this. I follow several different YT channels. Almost all of them promote new channels, either by doing cross posting interactions or giving them a shout out in their video. We only saw @SpentStardust after he reached the point where everything felt hopeless. The fact he had interactions with the OP through various channels indicates he was reaching out. He came here as a last resort. Maybe OP should use this time to introspect if he could have done more instead of pointing the finger at people who tried to show empathy and compassion.
 
S

Secrets1

Specialist
Nov 18, 2019
316
I do imagine what it might be like to want to be decimated by a train - and then I pick up any baseline literature on mental health and I speak to people who know a lot more about this than me - and I think 'perhaps this person wasn't thinking straight'. 'Oh, you know what, I should probably enquire a bit more about this person and not just assume they're of sound mind'.

Your argument seems to rest of the fallacy that 'if someone is thinking something right now, then that it the most valid thing they can ever think'. So using your logic, what if this same person today was thinking 'Gee, I'm glad I didn't jump in front of that train'. Would that be legit too?

Also, lets just tally up the harm here:

Me: zero minors killed themselves
SS: At least one minor killed themselves

Go on, tell me again how nothing could be done.
So much for non-judgemental. Here’s a response to your point, after putting together clues from reviewing your own interactions with him along with the forum, hindsight is 20-20.

I understand you’re upset. The 1st post in this thread was not genuine and bait. This is a complicated subject and the people here know that as well as anyone. Thinking that not telling anyone is the biggest red flag is a also a myth, says science. Amazingly enough, most psychologists aren’t suicide experts keeping up with new discoveries. So old myths are sometimes perpetuated by “experts” who are out of touch within a niche. Before telling people you know better and providing a lecture it’s helpful to fact check.

I can understand why you’re acting this way and I won’t judge you personally for the behavior ITT. I’m genuinely sorry you’re so affected by this loss.
 
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fastFWD

fastFWD

running out of time...
Feb 12, 2019
137
@Jonels overall i have no interest in your banal platitudes but wish you well either way. nevertheless, t's called freedom of choice. it's sad he's gone but he chose his path and was entitled to do so. we live in an imperfect world where identifying the true root of problems can be difficult and it's far too easy to get off track with suggestions and finger pointing. there will always be a could of, would of etc.
 
Tiberius85

Tiberius85

Member
Aug 21, 2022
67
I sympathise with OP @Jonels sentiments. And he’s undoubtedly correct on many observations, too.

But: it's not helpful to create a score of who has killed more people: OP vs SS (certainly this is a highly emotional judgement, and far from "non-judgemental").

It's hard to stay rational and see the wider context beyond this individual, tragic case in such an emotional, tragic, sad case. This leads to asking the wrong questions to the wrong people.

Let start with pointing out the obvious: SS is not really a place for help. It's mostly an echo chamber for deeply depressed, wounded and vulnerable people, who use this channel to affirm themselves in their pain and hurt, and the notion that life is worthless.

On the part of SS responsibility: would anything really have changed for this kid if more people here on SS had affirmed him in speaking to services? Possibly. Could there be more thorough processes in place on this site to ensure age is better verified? Probably.

Equally, it's possible none of that would have changed the outcome of the tragic early death of SpentStardust. Hindsight makes it seem easy to provide clear-cut answers to questions that tend to be a lot more nuanced.

In my view, it's harsh to ask this site, and it's community, to take responsibility for this case. That's a seriously one-dimensional view.

Instead, we should ask questions that go much deeper toward the root:
1) how did a seemingly lovely, smart, enthusiastic kid end up here in the first place, contemplating suicide?
2) why was he ultimately so hopeless that he then also saw no other option than to take his own life, for real?

The answers to these questions are rooted in a time way before any SS interactions started. For this very simple fact - he didn't feel he could speak to anyone in the real world - we must ask: Where is the wider society taking responsibility?

This isn't about what SS could have done more (not in isolation, at the very least). No: we can not absolve the real world for this tragedy. We can't put the responsibility on this forum because that suits as the simple answer we crave. Why? Because it's clearly too late when such a lovely kid ends up here, when he feels (perhaps knows?) there is no way in his real life to speak about the darkness of his thoughts.

What I want to say: let's be emotional and sad about this tragic death of such a promising young life. But lt's make sure we ask the right questions as well.

This forum is an easy target, a scapegoat for a much bigger societal issue. In fact, this forum is a symptom of this much wider social issue. It's certainly not the cause for it.
 
makethepainstop

makethepainstop

Enlightened
Sep 16, 2022
1,919
How naive.

This is the one place we have.

The one place where we can go and see the other side--where philosophies sometimes collide, yes, but where unadulterated voices subsist.

I understand that some would consider such an event to be tragic, but there is beauty in tragedy.

Whether it actually is a tragedy is debatable.
This is the only place we can speak our unspeakable feelings, WITHOUT risking being involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. Just being able to to speak our minds without fear is probably the best therapy any of us that are here.
 
Jonels

Jonels

Tantacrul
Nov 21, 2022
7
So much for non-judgemental.
Yeah, I lied. I am being judgemental.

I'm judging that a minor died because of lack of protocol.

Me: Being judgemental when I said I wouldn't be
SS: Allowing a minor to die

Yeah, my lack of etiquette is the the story here, isn't it?

I love how you would rather do anything other than take on board the criticism I'm delivering to you.
 
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MellowAvenue

MellowAvenue

👻
Nov 5, 2020
540
All I’ll say is that I think people need to be more mindful of what they say on this board. I understand venting and I understand the unique niche this site fields and am unsure how much I really would ever want to see changed but this attracts a lot of very vulnerable and impressionable people. I myself stumbled onto this site for the first time when I was in school, I’m willing to wager a lot of others did as well and even ignoring age you have serious mental health cases who come here too.

They come here and potentially see posts saying “Life sucks, suicide’s the bomb.” You are actively telling them to do it without actively telling them to do it if you know what I mean.

They say they’re thinking about seeking help and are met with warnings of institutionalization or other some such horror stories. There is absolutely a need to share such stories but I don’t think it’s when someone who may be teetering between life and death is considering seeking help.

Do not get anything I’m saying here twisted, I am not pro-life and am indeed pro-choice. I will never tell someone that suicide isn’t an option and I truly do believe that there are people out there who can never be helped anyway, but I do think people really need to start trying to find that line between being pro-choice vs being pro-suicide, which this site claims not to be. If you are actively discouraging attempts at getting help and are painting a hopeless picture for all involved, you aren’t pro-choice and shouldn’t pretend to be.
 
9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
This is a tragedy and I'm sorry for your loss. You deserve more compassion than this. Please don't lose your composure. Everyone else brace yourself for a blunt critique of this forum.

No one considers whether he is having a psychological breakdown due to stress, or loss or any other reason. Everyone assumes it he is of sound mind.
I think there's an unhealthy tendency here to over-correct institutional assumptions that suicide is intrinsically delusional and/or impulsive. I also think there is often motivated reasoning at play when people assume others here are of age and sound mind. This is a true and difficult point. There needs to be a better balance of granting dignity and exhibiting caution. "There's an 18+ rule" is a perfect example of a cop-out excuse of a policy that doesn't exhibit enough caution. Part of why change on this front is so difficult is because many people here, including moderators and administrators, personally believe anyone should be allowed to be here. To everyone reading this, whether or not you agree with that belief is beside the point: there is a rule here that isn't actually enforced with enough care.

Some of the replies to this thread have been impressively measured, balanced, honest, reflective and have treated this person's passing with the appropriate respect. Others have been pretty embarrassing tbh, and I really hope the better responses aren't going to be ultimately drowned out by a torrent of cringe.
Yes it's true this thread has a mixed quality of replies. I also think this is true about the distribution of content on this forum in general. Please everyone keep that in mind. I think it's important to rebuke some of the unwarranted responses. I thought these were completely devoid of empathy:
It’s tiring to come on here and see pro lifers. [...]
I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing this for views and subscribers. [...]
I don't know if it will be constructive to harp on about this point so I'll leave it at this. This forum can get immature. I'm sorry Tantacrul.

It is assumed that because he has had the idea to kill himself, it is definitely legitimate. The echo chamber has reflected their own feelings back to him. [...] To put it simply: just because you are certain that you want to die doesn't mean you should be certain that others should die too.
To your point about certainty that others should die too, I've been engaged in a different thread calling out this very behavior:
This is the truth, the fact is that a peaceful suicide would solve everything in life
And the truth is that to die is a beautiful thing.
any positive views towards life certainly are a delusion
Which the forum administrator, Rain, should not find acceptable. In their own words:
she doesn't set her own opinion as the absolute truth when it comes to your decisons.
Basically, in the past Rain has said this kind of behavior is unacceptable, but the earlier posts were (disputably) deemed to be fine. Now when these new comments from FC should be indisputably unacceptable, the mods turn a blind eye and Rain even Liked the post. So there's definitely a double standard going on, which, to your other point, is a defining feature of an echo chamber. Now of course it's true that a complete echo chamber would not allow space within it for me and others to criticize behavior like this, so it's important to recognize that an environment is not one or the other, a complete echo chamber or not at all; it is a spectrum.

This is not an exhaustive critique. I thought Pluto, Rounded Apathy, and others also made great points I agreed with.
 
Anon1337

Anon1337

Experienced
Oct 1, 2018
294
If a person wants to kill themselves, that’s their choice. They come on this forum willingly. Many like that they aren’t bombarded with cliche anti suicide messages. Lots of people have tried to get help. And there is a recovery section. It’s impossible to know someone’s true age on here without some form of irl verification, which would undermine people’s anonymity. The site trusts that people will abide by the rules.
 
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makethepainstop

makethepainstop

Enlightened
Sep 16, 2022
1,919
He has a YouTube channel... I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes a vid about all of this.
Please tell me the O P to be banned is the guy who started this. YouTube, great just what we need. I didn't have the heart to tell the man that I could make a fake ID to get into topless bars as a teen-ager! Actually,(blushing a bit here), other guys in HS would pay for one of my creations. So doesn't that pro-life guy realize that if someone,(kid, teen-ager, or elderly person), really wants to do a thing, that they will do it? Has he never encountered a truly committed person, who wants to do something? This man knows nothing of our kind and our determination, our unrelenting desire to be free of our pain.
 
RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
1,835
Alright. You've already crossed the line in some of your previous posts but members of this community still took their time to address your rather childish and dishonest criticism with well thought out, nuanced and constructive feedback. Your only response to that wave of input is quoting one(?) single sentence, followed by some snarky remarks, essentially ignoring all the feedback and doubling down on your absurd accusations? Not under my watch, buddy. As I said in my private message, you're welcome to engage with this community in good faith, as long as you respect the rules and this community. None of this is good faith and I'll treat you like anyone else who simply comes to this forum to let off steam and blame people without any constructive intentions. This is not your punching bag. Goodbye.
 
almaranthine

almaranthine

Wizard
Nov 28, 2019
600
Alright. You've already crossed the line in some of your previous posts but members of this community still took their time to address your rather childish and dishonest criticism with well thought out, nuanced and constructive feedback. Your only response to that wave of input is quoting one(?) single sentence, followed by some snarky remarks, essentially ignoring all the feedback and doubling down on your absurd accusations? Not under my watch, buddy. As I said in my private message, you're welcome to engage with this community in good faith, as long as you respect the rules and this community. None of this is good faith and I'll treat you like anyone else who simply comes to this forum te to let off steam and blame people without any constructive intentions. This is not your punching bag. Goodbye.
Thank you. This guy was stressing me out. The last thing depressed and struggling people here need is to be repeatedly verbally assaulted by a man accusing us of “killing a minor.” I can’t help but feel that even if there were multiple comments on that young man’s threads, telling him to get help and reconsider, that this guy would still be attacking this forum.
 
9BBN

9BBN

Heaven, send Hell away
Mar 29, 2021
377
Yeah, I lied. I am being judgemental.

I'm judging that a minor died because of lack of protocol.

Me: Being judgemental when I said I wouldn't be
SS: Allowing a minor to die

Yeah, my lack of etiquette is the the story here, isn't it?

I love how you would rather do anything other than take on board the criticism I'm delivering to you.
So disappointing. Hopefully some valid criticism can be salvaged from this conversation.
 
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makethepainstop

makethepainstop

Enlightened
Sep 16, 2022
1,919
Thank you. This guy was stressing me out. The last thing depressed and struggling people here need is to be repeatedly verbally assaulted by a man accusing us of “killing a minor.” I can’t help but feel that even if there were multiple comments on that young man’s threads, telling him to get help and reconsider, that this guy would still be attacking this forum.
Of course he would still attack the forum, remember do-gooders need to have a helpless victim to attack. This helps their self esteem issues, and their need to look like they have heroically done something. When in truth they simply make things worse for others.
 
almaranthine

almaranthine

Wizard
Nov 28, 2019
600
Of course he would still attack the forum, remember do-gooders need to have a helpless victim to attack. This helps their self esteem issues, and their need to look like they have heroically done something. When in truth they simply make things worse for others.
It’s sad honestly. He just kept saying there needs to be protocols on the site, that we’re responsible. I fail to see what kind of regulations could be effective here. Once plenty of users commented saying minors are not allowed on the forum, he changed his tune and said for the sake of argument, let’s pretend SpentStardust was 19. Is there supposed to be an unspoken age limit on allowing people to speak freely about their suicidal ideation? Could one comment saying, “go get help!” really have shifted this young man’s perspective? Someone who has been troubled with thoughts of suicide since the age of 10? He mentions that the user must have not been in his right mind to have decided to end his life by train. In that case, what could other users have really said or done to convince him otherwise? I don’t know this whole discourse just upset me a lot. Some users had really well thought out and considerate responses, saying the forum could have done better responding to SpentStardust and this guy didn’t have a word to say back to any of them.
 
makethepainstop

makethepainstop

Enlightened
Sep 16, 2022
1,919
It’s sad honestly. He just kept saying there needs to be protocols on the site, that we’re responsible. I fail to see what kind of regulations could be effective here. Once plenty of users commented saying minors are not allowed on the forum, he changed his tune and said for the sake of argument, let’s pretend SpentStardust was 19. Is there supposed to be an unspoken age limit on allowing people to speak freely about their suicidal ideation? Could one comment saying, “go get help!” really have shifted this young man’s perspective? Someone who has been troubled with thoughts of suicide since the age of 10? He mentions that the user must have not been in his right mind to have decided to end his life by train. In that case, what could other users have really said or done to convince him otherwise? I don’t know this whole discourse just upset me a lot. Some users had really well thought out and considerate responses, saying the forum could have done better responding to SpentStardust and this guy didn’t have a word to say back to any of them.
That man had already determined to attack, from the time he came here. I am sorry young people dieing really bothers me. That being said, the whole point of this site is that you are anonymous, that you may speak freely. No one here is inclined to rejoice in a members death, we rejoice that soul who was in agony, found relief from pain. I just hate it when someone I enjoy pms or conversations with leaves. But he or she was in excruciating pain, and I have to accept, that they made the call. Yeah it hurts,(and no I damn well will not admit to shedding tears), I'm a tough guy right? But it, oh how to put it in hard dude speak.....oh i know. I am most annoyed by friends who leave. Sounds tough enough. As always love and 🤗 to all here!
 
S

SamTam33

Experienced
Oct 9, 2022
282
So disappointing. Hopefully some valid criticism can be salvaged from this conversation.
Hopefully he'll look in the mirror and ask himself the same questions he hurled at the forum.

Sounds like SpentStardust had more in-depth interaction with him and his platform than he did with SS.

I bet that's why OP made sure to say that he seemed like a well-adjusted individual. That's what he tells himself to clear his conscience and absolve himself of any responsibility.

With all his familial connections to mental health and knowledge of red flags, OP should've known that's what deeply unhappy people do: put on a facade.

As others have said, the only question that needs to be asked is what drove him to want to die.

If OP figures that out, then he's found his boogeyman and go take his grievances up with he/she/it.
 
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willitpass

willitpass

Wizard
Mar 10, 2020
675
i tried very hard to be open to hearing what he had to say and i did agree with some of his points but i think he lost site of the fact that he is now falsely accusing already suicidal people of murder. but i highly doubt he will take any accountability for the fact that he himself has just made many of us on here feel worse about ourselves rather than offer us help like we are supposed to do to every single one of the hundreds of users on this site. i want to be understanding of the opposite side of the pro-choice argument but it’s hard when they are doing worse than what they accuse us of doing
 
makethepainstop

makethepainstop

Enlightened
Sep 16, 2022
1,919
i tried very hard to be open to hearing what he had to say and i did agree with some of his points but i think he lost site of the fact that he is now falsely accusing already suicidal people of murder. but i highly doubt he will take any accountability for the fact that he himself has just made many of us on here feel worse about ourselves rather than offer us help like we are supposed to do to every single one of the hundreds of users on this site. i want to be understanding of the opposite side of the pro-choice argument but it’s hard when they are doing worse than what they accuse us of doing
Most of those meddling pro-life, and do-gooders think like this:. People go to SS ask how to suicide, then go do it. That is what those silly, imbecilic, fools think goes on here. Naturally they couldn't be bothered to investigate, look around at the site, and discover that people here try to help others hang on. That would destroy their preconceived notions about what goes on here.😤😵
 
Sittichmutter

Sittichmutter

Student
Sep 16, 2021
135
I want to tell a little story and then make a non-judgmental appeal at the end.

My online persona is Tantacrul. I have a reasonably large YouTube following and I also run an open source music program called MuseScore. On Friday evening, a colleague of mine alerted me to a user called System64, who had posted some music on his YouTube channel (using the application that my team develops), which was intended to be his 'last piece'. Along with this was a video he posted where he informed us that he was intending on ending his life.

You people know this user as SpentStardust.

The moment we read this, we started searching around to figure out who this kid was and whether we had any information about him. Long story short, we found his final post here, which gave us a few more clues - and a few hours later, we discovered that we were too late. He had already taken his own life in an incredibly shocking and violent way (via train).

After this, I began searching to see whether there had been any direct interactions between myself and System 64 / SpentStardust, because his nickname rang a bell. Sure enough, he had commented a lot on posts of mine on Twitter, and had also been a member of my Discord server. I then realised that I had actually spoken to him directly one time, when he played his compositions during a listening session on my server, which we do every two weeks. My impression of him? Lovely. Sweet. Super clued-in to technology and composition. A very smart 17 year old kid who seemed really grateful whenever anyone complemented him. I also searched through his comment history in forums where I have also been present. My findings? He has never once said anything pessimistic, indicative of depression or even vaguely negative. He just seemed chirpy, generally excitable and a little bit quiet.

Obviously, if there's one audience on the planet where I don't feel I need to go into detail about the difference between outward public behaviour and internal thought processes, it's this one. So I'll spare you that info.

However:

There is one thing that really does bother me. In a previous conversation on this forum a month or two ago, System 64 / SpentStardust began posting about his intentions to kill himself. Along they way, he let one thing slip that no one seemed to pick up on.

He said that he had never told anyone about his intentions to commit suicide and was afraid that if he did, that person might try to stop him. Since I come from a family with plenty of mental health specialists and psychologists, this is the the reddest of red flags.

A 17 year old kid, who has never discussed suicide with anyone decides he is going to kill himself. The only people he tells are on this forum. And the advice he is given is.... nothing. It is assumed that because he has had the idea to kill himself, it is definitely legitimate. The echo chamber has reflected their own feelings back to him. No one has thought to say 'perhaps speak to a suicide hotline anonymously - that way they are unable to stop you'. No one considers whether he is having a psychological breakdown due to stress, or loss or any other reason. Everyone assumes it he is of sound mind.

When I read this discussion, what I saw was a single moment in time where System 64 / SpentStardust - who was a very talented kid - a kid with a computer science scholarship, a player and a composer, who had a wide network of friends online who he played games with and created videos with - finally making his inner thoughts known to a group of people - letting them know that he had not sought out any advice from anyone who might have given him another perspective - and that group of people said 'yeah, do it'.

I think you can probably figure out my appeal. It's not harsh. It's about as simple as it could be:

Because I've read many times on this forum over the last few days that this is not a 'pro death' site, I think there should be a protocol for determining a few things when new people announce they want to kill themselves:

1. Is the person under age?
2. Has the person ever taken steps to try and receive treatment?
3. Had the person ever spoken to a professional?

Asking these questions, and providing basic advice to the effect of "you should really consider this carefully. At least speak to someone anonymously" could have made all the difference.

As much as I imagine people on this forum will hate me saying this - it is actually possible for some people to overcome suicidal ideation and lead a relatively peaceful life. I'm not saying you will. But, statistically speaking, some other people on this forum definitely will.

There is no good reason on an anonymous forum why a few basic questions can't be asked to determine whether someone is a full grown adult and to find out whether this person has exhausted their options or not. A kid may not be aware of what their options are.

To put it simply: just because you are certain that you want to die doesn't mean you should be certain that others should die too.

I may or may not come back here to read replies. My guess is one of you will feel this is 'off topic' and ask a mod to take it down because you don't like being challenged. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps you can suck up constructive criticism.

Best,
Tantacrul

By the way, my mail is [email protected]

You ever want to talk. Even to tell me I'm a total fool. You are most welcome to do so and I won't give you any grief for it.
Dear Tantracrul,
Thank you for searching for the kid and trying to save his life.
You bring a very important issue here.
I have the impression people do not try to help because of being afraid to be labelled pro-lifers and be thrown out of the community. That is why I try to contact the person by PM, when I sense danger.
I totally agree that something must be said and not just a Farewell.
A lot of young people are dying by suicide. It is almost epidemic and It is very, very sad.
Almost 2 years ago I lost my 15 year old son. He took SN.
He was in treatment against depression. But the treatment was not enough. Depression is a serious illness.
He was my sunshine. And I miss him every day.
I see a lot of mental sick people in this forum. I hope I could help. One girl, whom I gave my phone number, I even offered therapy online with my psychologist. She did not want. She killed herself in rage, after discussing with her mother, by jumping out of the apartament's window. She was 19. A brilliant girl from Iran. Poor girl. Poor mother. Poor sister. I talk her sister sometimes. What can we do to help? How to prevent?
I think people should not be bullied If they want to help.
But If you say something clear against suicide, a lot of people get angry, accusing you of being against choices or pro-lifers.
Too much judgement, too little empathy. People are here because they are suffering. Because
they feel an unbearable pain. And they are also alone, disconnect from others, reality and themselves. Can't we offer kind words, instead of methods????
For the bright side, I also see more and more people like you. Who genuinely desire to help. Thank you. From all my heart.❤️
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
1,268
It’s sad honestly. He just kept saying there needs to be protocols on the site, that we’re responsible. I fail to see what kind of regulations could be effective here. Once plenty of users commented saying minors are not allowed on the forum, he changed his tune and said for the sake of argument, let’s pretend SpentStardust was 19. Is there supposed to be an unspoken age limit on allowing people to speak freely about their suicidal ideation? Could one comment saying, “go get help!” really have shifted this young man’s perspective? Someone who has been troubled with thoughts of suicide since the age of 10? He mentions that the user must have not been in his right mind to have decided to end his life by train. In that case, what could other users have really said or done to convince him otherwise? I don’t know this whole discourse just upset me a lot. Some users had really well thought out and considerate responses, saying the forum could have done better responding to SpentStardust and this guy didn’t have a word to say back to any of them.
Yeah- the age thing struck me as well. The idea that if he had been 19, it would have been just as bad. I thought about that a lot. When I was 18, I left home for uni. Wouldn't say I was a fully grown adult but I was certainly making adult decisions. So- at what age do we stop being vulnerable and start being in control of our own lives and decisions?

I actually tried to juxtapose it with the opposite- life or birth. The legal age of consent seems to range between 16-18. As a man, that doesn't need to worry about pregnancy and who likes to carelessly 'put it about', there's the potential to have created numerous new lives legally in the world by the age of 19. Yet, I doubt their mental health would be called into question. The most they would be called I imagine is horny, promiscuous and careless. WHY is it not crazy to bring independant lives into a world that can barely support them but it IS crazy to want to end your own life? I know it's not relevent here but it did make me think... I guess that comes down to instinct- it IS instinctual for us to want to procreate but it goes against our instincts to kill ourselves.

I think the mental health angle will never go away though. The moment mental health is on the table- the person's capability of autonomy goes out the window. Still you have to wonder whether- if to be suicidal at any age is a sign of mental illness, then we're all mentally ill- in which case- how could we possibly help another inmate?

It's terribly sad that we didn't know @SpentStardust 's background but like you said- this didn't seem like a transient thought. He expressed suicidal ideation from the age of 10 and he seemed to have a fair idea of methods even before coming on here.

I honestly can't believe that he didn't realise help was available either. Maybe it's different in Italy but the moment you type anything related to suicide here, you get inundated with helplines.

Honestly, I sort of wonder if Jonels believes that no one should have access to a site like this. I get the inkling that he would imagine that for anyone physically healthy to want to kill themselves is a sign of mental illness which equals a vulnerable person which ought to be protected from harming themselves. I could be wrong of course but that's the impression I get.
 
D

DysphoriaKilledMe

-
Nov 21, 2022
51
Honestly, I sort of wonder if Jonels believes that no one should have access to a site like this. I get the inkling that he would imagine that for anyone physically healthy to want to kill themselves is a sign of mental illness which equals a vulnerable person which ought to be protected from harming themselves. I could be wrong of course but that's the impression I get.
It's safe to assume that because next to no one outside of this site believes this site should exist at all. I honestly believe he was using this story to bolster a rally against this site and for a cause he took part in. Using a 17 year old's suicide just as a political statement as he seemingly did is pretty sick.

I know some apologists on here will ask how I know. I don't know for sure as I am just making an assumption based on the timing of everything with the political movement against this site.

It's very interesting that the OP tries to blame the site for the suicide. However, where was the OP during the person's struggle? Couldn;t he have done more? Been there for him more? if the OP says that there was nothing he could have done for him, then the OP is basically admitting there were no options left for the individual, which is a road the OP doesn't want to go down. I think deep down inside the OP feels like he failed him, so in order to absolve himself of any responsibility, they decided to use their friend's suicide to bolster their cause and project their own failure to prevent the suicide onto this site.
 
S

sevenkarmas

Member
Oct 10, 2022
52
Yeah, I lied. I am being judgemental.

I'm judging that a minor died because of lack of protocol.

Me: Being judgemental when I said I wouldn't be
SS: Allowing a minor to die

Yeah, my lack of etiquette is the the story here, isn't it?

I love how you would rather do anything other than take on board the criticism I'm delivering to you.
How about asking yourself what you could have done to encourage him vs. coming here to drive your clout? You only took interest in @SpentStardust after he took his life. You even admitted he reached out to you, but you couldn't even remember when or why. He was insignificant to you. More than likely because people like yourself are more interested in what people can do for you than what you can do for others.

I'm here, but I feel sadness every time I see a goodbye thread or read a story about anyone who has taken their life. It's sad whether they are talented or not; whether they are old or young; whether they are poor or rich. If @SpentStardust had not posted his goodbye video, would you have even cared that he was no longer posting videos? Honestly?
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
1,268
It's very interesting that the OP tries to blame the site for the suicide. However, where was the OP during the person's struggle? Couldn;t he have done more? Been there for him more? if the OP says that there was nothing he could have done for him, then the OP is basically admitting there were no options left for the individual, which is a road the OP doesn't want to go down. I think deep down inside the OP feels like he failed him, so in order to absolve himself of any responsibility, they decided to use their friend's suicide to bolster their cause and project their own failure to prevent the suicide onto this site.
I think he said that @SpentStardust gave no indication that he was suicidal with his dealings with him- so he wouldn't have known he was in trouble till it was too late. Still, I know what you mean. I do wonder what the nature of their communications were.

I think he blames this site because we (obviously) know what everyone's intentions are and I guess he believes everyone should be 'saved'- especially younger members.
 
G

Grey-zoner

Member
Dec 17, 2021
88
Yeah, I lied. I am being judgemental.

I'm judging that a minor died because of lack of protocol.

Me: Being judgemental when I said I wouldn't be
SS: Allowing a minor to die

Yeah, my lack of etiquette is the the story here, isn't it?

I love how you would rather do anything other than take on board the criticism I'm delivering to you.
Aside from banning the site, I'm not sure which "protocols" you have in mind--age verification, how would that work? The user accessed SS from a country which had already prohibited access to it.
I don't know what the OP's intent was, but this forum is attracting increasing scrutiny (in the US and UK at least) and media coverage, often in the context of "save the children" (the primary focus of Trahan's bill, and NYT's reporting). This post is more or less the same narrative, and to me at least implies the desire to make a video covering the "depravity" of this site and how to save vulnerable people from accessing it. He more or less stated that we are murderers. This IS the 'pro-life' position in a nutshell.
 
S

SamTam33

Experienced
Oct 9, 2022
282
... I guess that comes down to instinct- it IS instinctual for us to want to procreate but it goes against our instincts to kill ourselves....
This gives me something to think about because I have an incredibly hard time separating life and death. How can you have life without death.

But your comment might help me understand why everyone else sees the two events as completely different. Why saying you want to have a baby yields congratulatory comments and saying you want to die can get you locked up.

One event requires no thinking. It's instinctual like breathing.

The other event requires rumination, critical thinking and planning.

You have to apply logic, e.g. How much does my situation have to improve for me to want to stay alive? What are the odds of it improving? Do I have access to the resources that would improve it?

In that way, suicide is more rational than procreation. It's more deliberate and purposeful.

I know some people think long and hard before having kids, assess their finances and living situation. But not nearly enough.

The reverse is probably true with suicides. Relatively few people commit suicide without stewing about it and pondering the situation. I think the majority wrestle with the idea and put forth some effort into planning it.
 
Malpractice

Malpractice

Degenerative Medical/Meds Injuries/Neglect
Sep 27, 2022
148
Many of us are still shocked and saddened at the loss of
@SpentStardust — it seemed rushed/ impulsive at the time— but please see his YouTube

Only w/ what was to be his final post on SS — did he “direct” SS to his hauntingly beautiful original music on His public YouTube channel

But he posted his "Sorry" video on YouTube — not SS — and was NOT yet posted on YT at the time of his SS final post — he had programmed the delay—
I checked at the time of his SS final post — it wasn't on YT yet — surely this can be verified — an SS member found it later and hoped he’d respond — but sadly he did not

And his YT "Goodbye" video appears delayed too — he seemed determined to keep quiet control of his departure

🙏 Please Note—
On his YT - he poured his troubled heart + soul out like an open diary for the world to see

Evident in every facet of every composition :
Very detailed descriptions of his deeply melancholic inspiration/ state of mind

Imagery - themes of drowning ; masked sadness — using his avatar ; fiery conflicts / clashes of opposing emotions

Videos w/ tragic text — “terror ; deceit; danger ; doom ; battle; sorrow; suicide”

Music titles — “Triumph of Death” , “Hidden Struggle” , “Lost Memories” ,
“ Grief “ , “Desperation” , “Wrong” , Etc ..

His YT community page — personal comments — and final post —
“Big Announcement (hopefully) tomorrow” — was never posted on SS

🙏 Please Note — all his carefully chosen words / expressions of his feelings/ imagery — clearly embedded in his YouTube for at least 1-2 years

He bravely wrote of his depression , losses, emotions , fears , darkness, blood and tears , tragedy

And — ‘his own designated outro’
— “No one can escape their fate”
— “Behind the Smile” = masked sorrow
— “Cursed Knight” ~ 11 months ago = truly foreshadowing


As with all those who have departed — by accident / illness/ or self determination — we can only hope @SpentStardust is now at peace

💔🕊️🙏💫
 
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willitpass

willitpass

Wizard
Mar 10, 2020
675
i think the fact that he accessed this from a country where it was already banned is the most important fact. he went out of his way to be able to access this site which was already unavailable to him. that level of determination to be here shows that this was well thought out before hand and he was making it obvious that nothing would stop him. he wanted to be here and obviously even a country-wide ban would not get in his way. if he wanted to go out of his way to ignore that this site was not supposed to be viewed in his country, then i’m sure requiring an ID to verify you are over 18 would have just meant he would forge a form of ID. he had this well thought out
 
R

Regen

Student
Aug 20, 2020
190
Everything I wrote on this post I have reworded and deleted three times. It makes me sad, angry and suicidal.

Because I get a guilt imposed on me that does not do me justice. I am always extremely sad when people leave who have not tried everything before to improve their situation. Especially when they are still tennagers or young adults.

But I can't help everyone. There are so many loving, helping, caring, kind people here who really want to help. But sometimes it's just luck or bad luck whether you get the help.

And please never forget one thing: we are all members of SS. He wasn't the suicidal teen and we were the bad guys of SS. But we all were/are members here. Did he help others? No, he probably couldn't because he was in too bad a shape. Can we help everyone enough? No, because we are all suicidal here too and we are really bad. Please stop blaming us because we are already down. I see people here every day trying to help others with the last of their strength. Before they then go themselves. It is not as black and white as it sometimes seems. It would be nice if good and evil were so simple.