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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Global Mod
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Jun 12, 2018
Messages
1,411
braketimez said:
where is your evidence courts are on our side?

if they were truly unanimously on our side, then euthanasia would be legalized everywhere...

This is an example of a court ruling of the ECHR. They declared suicide "an expression of individual autonomy" and even implied that it's not the responsibility of the state to prevent suicide. Germany just recently ruled in favor of assisted suicide with very similar arguments.

1605909025624.png

Keep in mind though: if a court aknowledges your right to commit suicide, as it happened in the linked example, that doesn't necessary mean the state has to help you in that process. So if a court rules in favor of suicide, like they did in that case, it doesn't imply you're allowed to leave via assisted suicide.
 
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yive

yive

anti-life
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
440
Rn110bg101 said:
I'm just going to say that I don't think this is a good idea, at least not with the name of the forum plastered on it. The last thing we need is more attention drawn to this forum by pro-lifers, be it people or governments that are very active on social media.
Some of us do not have money for a VPN if this site gets restricted in our countries.
absolutely agree.
sorry, guys, but i think it's a bad idea
 
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demuic

demuic

Life was a mistake
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
780
ThisIsFine said:
We already knew they were watching us. But this level of misplaced blame is disturbing.

View attachment 51630

Btw, that screenshot they took is taken from THIS very thread. That alone is kind of creepy in itself.
How do you feel that they used your post?

"SS convinced their children Suicide was their best option before they had a chance to develop, grow, mature & try"... So much manipulation and falsehood in this statement.
 
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_Kaira_

_Kaira_

This Isn't Fine
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Messages
824
demuic said:
How do you feel that they used your post?

"SS convinced their children Suicide was their best option before they had a chance to develop, grow, mature & try"... So much manipulation and falsehood in this statement.

It wasn't my post. It was @GoodPersonEffed 's. I was just the quote they were replying too.

Honestly I don't really care.
They most likely talk about every single thread and post here. It is their "life goal"
to keep tabs on SS to find any evidence possible to use against this site, and twist things into their narrative.
 
Lone_Gray_Wolf

Lone_Gray_Wolf

Fate plays chess with 2 queens
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
99
Rn110bg101 said:
You can't have a low profile and make your voice heard, either people won't listen to you because your voice is so low or they will listen but they will also know about you, unless you pull some sort of Anonymous but this is clearly not the idea here.
I meant in different situations. To this moment some mods were the ones making statements with media sources and you will see opinions and comments inside the forum but that's it. That twitter account allows to make more public statements for what Marquis and whoever admins that see convenient. Even if it is on the internet we are not going out there and painting on walls our presence so isn't necessary all much of a spotlight. I don't know if I'm getting my point across.
 
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Heart Shards

Heart Shards

The shards of my broken heart cut deep.
Joined
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Messages
536
AnnonyBox

AnnonyBox

Experienced
Joined
Apr 11, 2018
Messages
249
Made a private list and followed, twitter wouldn't be my first choice, since it's very structure leads to division but you have my support, albeit anonymously. I just don't feel like creating a burner account, tbh.
 
braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Messages
346
RainAndSadness said:
This is an example of a court ruling of the ECHR. They declared suicide "an expression of individual autonomy" and even implied that it's not the responsibility of the state to prevent suicide. Germany just recently ruled in favor of assisted suicide with very similar arguments.

View attachment 51636

Keep in mind though: if a court aknowledges your right to commit suicide, as it happened in the linked example, that doesn't necessary mean the state has to help you in that process. So if a court rules in favor of suicide, like they did in that case, it doesn't imply you're allowed to leave via assisted suicide.

Rain,

These are great examples of specific courts understanding our viewpoint.

However, with all due respect, to cite 3-5 examples of specific court rulings as evidence of unanimous court support is NOT sufficient proof.

Can you please explain to me how citing literally less than a handful of examples is proof that the "courts are on our side" as you put in your original post?

Also, you didn't answer my question....

If the courts are TRULY on our side, including legislative bodies, etc...why isn't human euthanasia a prominent permissible practice?

You have committed this broad sweeping generalization fallacy before, and it's not logical.
 
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Marquis

Marquis

Administrator
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
244
braketimez said:
Do you honestly believe people will believe us if we “call out their lies” on Twitter?

Because we already take a morally debased stance on suicide in society’s perspective, they will be biased against anything we say...even if we were to try and provide evidence against the lies.

Furthermore, Twitter is not the place to express vague and pathetic rebuttals.

At this point, trying to challenge the lies just makes us seem like We are covering something up to them.

I stand by what I said before.

They're going to take screenshots from the forum and twist it either way.

At least this way we have a voice and are not confined to our corner of the internet.

I already know that we have an unpopular position and that they will be biased, but that's not a reason to back down from an organization that is dedicated to trying to shut us down.

If someone was threatening to burn down your home, you wouldn't just sit there and let them do it, would you?
 
JoeeWasHere

JoeeWasHere

Recovery Gang
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
503
Marquis said:
They're going to take screenshots from the forum and twist it either way.

At least this way we have a voice and are not confined to our corner of the internet.

I already know that we have an unpopular position and that they will be biased, but that's not a reason to back down from an organization that is dedicated to trying to shut us down.

If someone was threatening to burn down your home, you wouldn't just sit there and let them do it, would you?
They’ll do anything to get clicks :o
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Global Mod
Joined
Jun 12, 2018
Messages
1,411
braketimez said:
Rain,

These are great examples of specific courts understanding our viewpoint.

However, with all due respect, to cite 3-5 examples of specific court rulings as evidence of unanimous court support is NOT sufficient proof.

Can you please explain to me how citing literally less than a handful of examples is proof that the "courts are on our side" as you put in your original post?

Also, you didn't answer my question....

If the courts are TRULY on our side, including legislative bodies, etc...why isn't human euthanasia a prominent permissible practice?

You have committed this broad sweeping generalization fallacy before, and it's not logical.

I really don't understand your point. The ECHR isn't just a random court. It's the largest European legal body, compare it to the Supreme Court in the US. It's the highest Court in Europe and the members of the European Council, that's basically all of Europe with 47 member states, have to follow through. They have the final say. Such court rulings are the framework organizations like Exit Switzerland and Dignitas operate under. They legitimize the existence of assisted suicide in countries such as Switzerland, Belgium and Netherlands. Do you think it's a coincidence they're all located in Europe? The legal trend has been in favor of assisted suicide for the last few years, public opinion also shows overwhelming support and it's generally growing. Germany, a large country, just recently legalized assisted suicide with very similar arguments the ECHR used.
In Switzerland we constantly have the debate to make assisted suicide more accessible towards people that suffer from mental illness regardless of age. The efforts so far didn't result in any success but the overton window is moving. Those are clear signs.

Here is a global study about suicide and assisted suicide, involving examination of data for 21 countries, specific examples of great public support despite the lack of assisted suicide are Denmark and the UK:
1605958847312.png

The same trend is happening in the US, look at this survey from Gallup for example. 52% think doctor-assisted suicide is morally acceptable. The poll is from 2018.
1605958644607.png

I understand your concern and it probably makes sense that you think the majority of people would oppose us if you're confronted by organizations like fixthe26. But keep in mind, those people are a tiny but extremely loud minority. They do not represent the majority of society and these groups argue from an emotional point of view - we can easily win this debate with logical and rational arguments. I really think your pessimism is misplaced here. The LGBT community, which I'm a part of, didn't win social and legal support over night. This was a process that took centuries. 20 years ago it was almost impossible to think same sex marriage would be legalized in so many modern countries the way it is right now. Just because we're not winning this race over night, doesn't mean there isn't slow but steady change happening. We just have to keep fighting.
 

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braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Messages
346
Marquis said:
They're going to take screenshots from the forum and twist it either way.

At least this way we have a voice and are not confined to our corner of the internet.

I already know that we have an unpopular position and that they will be biased, but that's not a reason to back down from an organization that is dedicated to trying to shut us down.

If someone was threatening to burn down your home, you wouldn't just sit there and let them do it, would you?
Sorry, that is an absolutely illogical analogy. Getting your home physically burned down is much different than a digital platform. It’s a categorical fallacy for sure.

You just reasserted my point by admitting yourself that other people will twist our words no matter what we do.

I stand by what I said.

Would you fight fire with a smaller fire?
RainAndSadness said:
I really don't understand your point. The ECHR isn't just a random court. It's the largest European legal body, compare it to the Supreme Court in the US. It's the highest Court in Europe and the members of the European Council, that's basically all of Europe with 47 member states, have to follow through. They have the final say. Such court rulings are the framework organizations like Exit Switzerland and Dignitas operate under. They legitimize the existence of assisted suicide in countries such as Switzerland, Belgium and Netherlands. Do you think it's a coincidence they're all located in Europe? The legal trend has been in favor of assisted suicide for the last few years, public opinion also shows overwhelming support and it's generally growing. Germany, a large country, just recently legalized assisted suicide with very similar arguments the ECHR used.
In Switzerland we constantly have the debate to make assisted suicide more accessible towards people that suffer from mental illness regardless of age. The efforts so far didn't result in any success but the overton window is moving. Those are clear signs.

Here is a global study about suicide and assisted suicide, involving examination of data for 21 countries, specific examples of great public support despite the lack of assisted suicide are Denmark and the UK:
View attachment 51705

The same trend is happening in the US, look at this survey from Gallup for example. 52% think doctor-assisted suicide is morally acceptable. The poll is from 2018.
View attachment 51702

I understand your concern and it probably makes sense that you think the majority of people would oppose us if you're confronted by organizations like fixthe26. But keep in mind, those people are a tiny but extremely loud minority. They do not represent the majority of society and these groups argue from an emotional point of view - we can easily win this debate with logical and rational arguments. I really think your pessimism is misplaced here. The LGBT community, which I'm a part of, didn't win social and legal support over night. This was a process that took centuries. 20 years ago it was almost impossible to think same sex marriage would be legalized in so many modern countries the way it is right now. Just because we're not winning this race over night, doesn't mean there isn't slow but steady change happening. We just have to keep fighting.

yes,I understand these are large bodies of people who “support” us, but now you’re changing your original premise:

You went from “the courts are on our side” to “slow and steady wins the race”.

if the courts were truly unanimously on our side, there wouldn’t be a race anymore.

So, please don’t make blanket statements to instill a false sense of optimism in people. Instead, provide specific examples in the first place like you finally just did.

Can we agree the courts aren’t on our side, even if more and more people are on board with us?
 
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xLosthopex

xLosthopex

The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma.
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
677
Myforevercharlie said:
Twitter sucks! Waiting for an SS Instagram :blarg:
Same lmao
Still followed on Twitter though:halo:
 
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braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Messages
346
RainAndSadness said:
I really don't understand your point. The ECHR isn't just a random court. It's the largest European legal body, compare it to the Supreme Court in the US. It's the highest Court in Europe and the members of the European Council, that's basically all of Europe with 47 member states, have to follow through. They have the final say. Such court rulings are the framework organizations like Exit Switzerland and Dignitas operate under. They legitimize the existence of assisted suicide in countries such as Switzerland, Belgium and Netherlands. Do you think it's a coincidence they're all located in Europe? The legal trend has been in favor of assisted suicide for the last few years, public opinion also shows overwhelming support and it's generally growing. Germany, a large country, just recently legalized assisted suicide with very similar arguments the ECHR used.
In Switzerland we constantly have the debate to make assisted suicide more accessible towards people that suffer from mental illness regardless of age. The efforts so far didn't result in any success but the overton window is moving. Those are clear signs.

Here is a global study about suicide and assisted suicide, involving examination of data for 21 countries, specific examples of great public support despite the lack of assisted suicide are Denmark and the UK:
View attachment 51705

The same trend is happening in the US, look at this survey from Gallup for example. 52% think doctor-assisted suicide is morally acceptable. The poll is from 2018.
View attachment 51702

I understand your concern and it probably makes sense that you think the majority of people would oppose us if you're confronted by organizations like fixthe26. But keep in mind, those people are a tiny but extremely loud minority. They do not represent the majority of society and these groups argue from an emotional point of view - we can easily win this debate with logical and rational arguments. I really think your pessimism is misplaced here. The LGBT community, which I'm a part of, didn't win social and legal support over night. This was a process that took centuries. 20 years ago it was almost impossible to think same sex marriage would be legalized in so many modern countries the way it is right now. Just because we're not winning this race over night, doesn't mean there isn't slow but steady change happening. We just have to keep fighting.
I will be responding to each of your examples later today.

but to begin, the sample sizes for the American surveys are INCREDIBLY small. A few thousand or even tens of thousands of people would not speak for the majority.

Again, you’re committing one of those sweeping generalization fallacies and creating blanket statements by citing the summary of a poll.

Second, Europe is not the world. Unless you want to take some sort of odd ethnocentric perspective on, of course.

From a global perspective, there is no evidence the majority of courts/people who have a true say in legislation are on our side.

The LGBT example is a great one to provide evidence things can change over time.

However, I do believe the stigma around death, deeply rooted beliefs about the sanctity of life, and the slippery slope of nihilism people fear by allowing assisted suicide all make this an incredibly complex matter, one that is different in nature from other social issues, such as same sex marriage.
 
Weary Soul

Weary Soul

Soon I will be free
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
1,103
First and foremost, my heart goes out to anyone who has lost a loved one by any means.

For those trying to get this site shut down, if you truly want to help? Please do not throw words and threats around. Instead, use actions to help instead of words. I would do this in a heartbeat if I had the resources to do it.

Help those in abusive situations find a place that is safe to live. If someone is facing homeless, help them to find a home and to get back on their feet. For those struggling with mental illness, become an independent advocate and support them. Just a few examples of ways that may help some.

It would likely not be easy and go against current means of assistance that are out there - but those current means of assistance, whelp, speaking for myself, they have harmed rather than helped.


Much love to you all.
 
StateOfMind

StateOfMind

Liberty or Death
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
1,151
BooGirl said:
Yeah, I'm willing to bet that Twitter'll ban it. But still, it's good to get the word out as much as we can!

Also, in other news, that Vice article is fucking disgusting.
Not sure how to feel about this twitter thing. I guess if it is used for meaningful activism, dialogue an discourse it can be a good thing?

Didn't read the vice article TLDR.
But guessing on how they have performed over the last years its probably garbage.
 
Heart Shards

Heart Shards

The shards of my broken heart cut deep.
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
536
Marquis said:
Most of it hasn't been back and forth between them, though.
I deleted my account on Twitter, and I'm packing up. They don't want discourse, they want someone to rage and blame for their children's death. I gave Jackie my whole life story and she still determined to keep people from making their own decisions. Keep fighting with them if you want, they'll just stick their fingers in their ears, and say but my child died from this site. Revenge. It's what consumes them. Good luck.
mahakali88 said:
They just repeat the same crap accusations over and over again.
After what that bitch said on twitter about one our deceased member and sad world, I'm done having conversation. Best of luck to you.
 
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Buffy5120

Buffy5120

Death is vital Female NY
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
553
RainAndSadness said:
I really don't understand your point. The ECHR isn't just a random court. It's the largest European legal body, compare it to the Supreme Court in the US. It's the highest Court in Europe and the members of the European Council, that's basically all of Europe with 47 member states, have to follow through. They have the final say. Such court rulings are the framework organizations like Exit Switzerland and Dignitas operate under. They legitimize the existence of assisted suicide in countries such as Switzerland, Belgium and Netherlands. Do you think it's a coincidence they're all located in Europe? The legal trend has been in favor of assisted suicide for the last few years, public opinion also shows overwhelming support and it's generally growing. Germany, a large country, just recently legalized assisted suicide with very similar arguments the ECHR used.
In Switzerland we constantly have the debate to make assisted suicide more accessible towards people that suffer from mental illness regardless of age. The efforts so far didn't result in any success but the overton window is moving. Those are clear signs.

Here is a global study about suicide and assisted suicide, involving examination of data for 21 countries, specific examples of great public support despite the lack of assisted suicide are Denmark and the UK:
View attachment 51705

The same trend is happening in the US, look at this survey from Gallup for example. 52% think doctor-assisted suicide is morally acceptable. The poll is from 2018.
View attachment 51702

I understand your concern and it probably makes sense that you think the majority of people would oppose us if you're confronted by organizations like fixthe26. But keep in mind, those people are a tiny but extremely loud minority. They do not represent the majority of society and these groups argue from an emotional point of view - we can easily win this debate with logical and rational arguments. I really think your pessimism is misplaced here. The LGBT community, which I'm a part of, didn't win social and legal support over night. This was a process that took centuries. 20 years ago it was almost impossible to think same sex marriage would be legalized in so many modern countries the way it is right now. Just because we're not winning this race over night, doesn't mean there isn't slow but steady change happening. We just have to keep fighting.
This is beautiful but i dont think i can wait another 40 years for them to finally realize all chronic illnesses that have no cure and are unending should be granted euthanasia. America is all about money. They do not care about the quality of any humans life. You can be brain dead and they will keep you alive for years just like this bullshit fix26 believes and honestly no point arguing with them they are ignorant its like arguing with a wall at the end of the day they will never understand but what they will one day understand is that they are not immune to illness and sickness. They can very much be like us and in our shoes if not today, then will definitely be when they get older..my grandfather has alzhimers and wants to die they dont even understand the gruesome unending lengths we go through dealing with all our suffering, and yes theres many people even in their 20s whos dealing with severe memory loss as well. Illness doesn’t discriminate based on age....what idiots they are...
 
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