Sibyl Vane

Sibyl Vane

Experienced
May 28, 2022
236
With all due respect Sibyl, your post is informative but it's also not entirely accurate.
Could you explain to me, in detail, which part of what I said is not entirely accurate? Because it was all based on historical facts.

And I do think you've cherry picked facts to back up your point ignoring others that contradict you. But I've probably done that too.
It wasn't my intention to do that. But unfortunately, I can't point out all the aspects of slavery in Brazil, from beginning to the end, without (as I mentioned) writing a whole book about it due to the complexity and extension of the subject, so I choose to focus on the process that leads to the abolition because it was what had the relevance to what we're talking about in the first place.

Sure.
Let's talk about slavery and the ample debate that abolished it in South America.
Also, your sarcastic remark here left the impression that an ample debate among the society played no role in the abolition, which is not correct, so I wanted to clarify.

But the Maroons in South America played a huge part, and the Brazilian rebel slave leader, zumbi, was quite pivotal too.
We need to stop with this manichaeism when talking about history. Not everything is a matter of black and white, right or wrong, bad and good guy

Zumbi, for example, was a slave owner himself.

You also mentioned how the French Revolution played a big part in the abolition of slavery, but the Haitian revolution pre-dated that, and the Haitian revolution was a big deal, it definitely had the western world very concerned.
No. I mentioned the french revolution in the sense of being one of the propulsors in the arising of questions about freedom, the unethically of slavery, and related topics, not as being the responsible for the abolition.

I also notice you left out my comment about the Carribbean entirely. Maybe it's not a topic your familiar with which is fine, but it's relevant.
I didn't find the relevance in mentioning it since I already clarified (in the same response, different quotation) that I never claimed an ample debate always worked in solving all the issues of humanity.
 
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Venus1WayTicket

Experienced
May 16, 2021
273
Sibyl, are you flipping serious?

You won't tell me what was incorrect in my post but you expect me to dissect yours as if everything you posted is 100% accurate.

And if you refuse to touch the info I posted about the Carribbean, then it proves you're not correct on this topic either. You're giving off "gotcha energy" whilst ignoring some hard historical facts that I posted.
 
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C

come to dust

Specialist
Oct 28, 2019
379
I'm extremely left both socially and economically.

How people on this site can be ferverently right wing when it's left wing progressive places like central Europe and Canada that are leading the way in euthanasia is beyond me.

"Enlightened centrists" who think they are better than everyone else are grating. Just because you don't subscribe to one side of politics doesn't automatically make you more informed.
 
Dizzylady80

Dizzylady80

Student
Nov 5, 2020
137
I'm a big ol commie. In practice tho I don't really participate in politics much, I mostly used to just try to set up mutual aid networks and tenants unions, and I try to advocate for better working conditions around town. It's fukin hard tho being disabled, I can't really get around much and don't have a lot of energy ESPECIALLY recently (used to be much more active in this stuff, now its barely at all), but I do try to support and radicalize people around me. I really don't do much anymore, mostly just helping people out however I can which isn't much
 
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Venus1WayTicket

Experienced
May 16, 2021
273
With all due respect, what you said is not entairaly accurate. You should stick with the U.S. and if you feel like sharing a little bit of how things were for you guys I'll love to read.
With all due respect, why are you ignoring the history of other former South American colonies?

Suriname, Guyana, French Guiana all had large slave colonies that fought back and rebelled. You keep trying to shut down my mention of the Maroons as if I'm making this up. Also, Brazil isn't the only country in South America FFS, also, you have no idea where my family are from, so trust me, I know more about certain countries than you do.
 
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Sibyl Vane

Sibyl Vane

Experienced
May 28, 2022
236
You won't tell me what was incorrect in my post
You must not be paying attention then. Showing the inaccuracy of your arguments and explaining the reasons in detail is everything I have been doing.
you expect me to dissect yours as if everything you posted is 100% accurate.
Not sure what the problem here is.

You claimed what I said wasn't entirely accurate. I just ask you to point out and clarify what part of it wasn't. Shouldn't be that complicated.
And if you refuse to touch the info I posted about the Carribbean, then it proves you're not correct on this topic either. You're giving off "gotcha energy" whilst ignoring some hard historical facts that I posted.
I did answer it (right above you). There's nothing else I feel the need to add.

If you consider sharing factual information as giving "gotcha energy" then sure, I guess lol
 
V

Venus1WayTicket

Experienced
May 16, 2021
273
You must not be paying attention then. Showing the inaccuracy of your arguments and explaining the reasons in detail is everything I have been doing.
Flip flopping attempting to claim slavery was abolished through civil discourse like a centrist, only to back track on yourself and end up agreeing with me doesn't strike me as proving anything.


Not sure what the problem here is.

You claimed what I said wasn't entirely accurate. I just ask you to point out and clarify what part of it wasn't. Shouldn't be that complicated.

I did answer it (right above you). There's nothing else I feel the need to add.
You certainly did not. You used Brazil as an example of how debate solved slavery (which it did not) while ignoring the history of 6 other colonies.
That's quite an obvious statement. I believe we all agree on it. I just found it valid to point out the dangers of characterizing someone as a racist or as being on the wrong side of history simple for disagreeing with you since there are subjects with a higher degree of complexity than "right" or "wrong". Especially when talking about the past.

Not one would be generous and understanding in every topic not even if they belong to a same minorital group. I never claimed an ample debate always worked in solving all the issues of humanity. I simply stated that the discussion between opposing views ends up acting as a propulsor on the further investigation of a topic since the intention to prove your point impulses you to do a more profound analysis and research of a theme.

With all due respect, what you said is not entairaly accurate. You should stick with the U.S. and if you feel like sharing a little bit of how things were for you guys I'll love to read.

I'm not a historian or anything like that but I'll try to share a little of what I know.

Imagine you're born in a place, and the landscape of the country consists of the existence of free people and slaves. If you make an effort to do so, you'll realize that this scenario was natural, and the idea it wasn't would not even go through people's minds. Even the bible had slaves, and as it did not vehement condemn slavery, many used the texts to defend it. There was an extremely limited moral and imaginative scope to go by (we didn't even have the idea of salary as we know it today), so the questions about the unethically of it took a while to arrive - the french revolution played a big role on it.

The most popular brazillian abolitionary movement had between their most proeminet members, André Rebouças, José do Patrocínio, Luiz Gama and Joaquim Nabuco (they were all black, by the way, Nabuco I can't remeber but I think he was white). Rebouças had a terrible experience on a trip to the U.S. He wrote in his diary he couldn't shower, go inside places, and didn't eat for 2 days. I believe experiencing segregation at that level definitely helped him find even more motivation in trying to solve things around here. Prior to that, he was already trying to help, being involved as an intellectual in certain "semi abolition" laws (don't feel like explaining this right now) we had before the complete abolition and stuff like that, but he was by himself, the group wasn't formed yet.

The movement didn't have support from the church and most of the politicians so they decided to cause noise among the society by getting a theater and having concerts with music and poetry declamations. In the middle of the entertainment, they would convocated slaves to the stage and give "freedom letters" (not sure what would be the name of this letter in English) releasing them from their masters. So you could only imagine the frenzy all that show would create in the population, the theaters were always full, and with that, they started to gain the support of the people towards the abolition.

After a couple of years, the idea slavery was wrong and should come to an end was cemented in the people. Slaves started to rebel and run away from the farms, and in some stances, even the masters would willingly release them.

Anyways, the story doesn't end here but I'll. That's a very extensive and complex subject. A LOT was left out, and some things might have been confusing due to lack of details, but I believe my answer was already long enough. I'm not trying to write a whole book here.

I didn't even have the chance to get to the imperial family, but just so you know, they were not those monsters some people paint them to be. Princess Isabel (the woman who sign the abolition) would actively participate and finance protests against slavery and would shelter slaves in her home. She also was seen using the camelia (a flower that represented the abolitionist movement).
No mention of Haitian slave rebellion here. Just skated right past that didn't you lol. Cherry picking is pretty rewarding this time of year.

No mention of any south American countries here besides Brazil. Cherry picking again.
Oh wait. So your obviously Brazilian, and you've tried the whole "black people had slaves too, their the actual racists", I think I know what this is lol.
 
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Sibyl Vane

Sibyl Vane

Experienced
May 28, 2022
236
Flip flopping attempting to claim slavery was abolished through civil discourse like a centrist, only to back track on yourself and end up agreeing with me doesn't strike me as proving anything.
I just gave you a walkthrough of the history of the abolition movement in my country, explaining how their operation in the public debate, educating and raising support to the cause, was crucial for the end of slavery in Brazil. But you choose to ignore it while implying I defend a completely absurd and baseless thesis. Forgive me, but I think I missed the part I agreed with you.

You certainly did not. You used Brazil as an example of how debate solved slavery (which it did not) while ignoring the history of 6 other colonies.
I believe at this point only rests for me to ask: what would I know, right? You're the wise one here, who holds all the answers, with vast knowledge about all the countries and continents of the world, so please, if you would be kind enough, enlighten me, explain to my uneducated self how the process of abolition took place? What were the necessary components to create the environment and break the naturality in which the society perceived slavery to be?
No mention of Haitian slave rebellion here. Just skated right past that didn't you lol. Cherry picking is pretty rewarding this time of year.

No mention of any south American countries here besides Brazil. Cherry picking again.
I beg for your forgiveness once more as I've here committed the grave sin of deciding to talk about my homeland, a place I possess the most knowledge. I'm sure you can understand that I meant no harm in abstaining myself in the matters of populations I don't fully understand. Unfortunately, my limited third-world country mentality could never rival your brilliance and profundity of mind. I could only dream one day be able to stick my nose in everyone's business as good as you do.
Oh wait. So your obviously Brazilian, and you've tried the whole "black people had slaves too, their the actual racists", I think I know what this is lol.
Of course, you do. You know it at all. But I must admit, even though all your mental greatness is already established at this point, It never ceases to impress me. The ability you demonstrate to extract conclusions on top of something it was never said or implied is remarkable. I believe it shows a unique vision and amazing skills in text interpretation.
 
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Johnhawk_Down

Johnhawk_Down

Member
Mar 18, 2022
19
I see myself as a Nationalist. I want my country to be for my country men and women and not for foreign influence. I am anti migrant, I want to preserve my culture, encourage our language which is becoming obsolete. The globalist agenda would have my countries, among others no doubt become sludge pots with their identity stripped, wouldn’t be surprised if the agenda would assign them numbers or sectors instead. I also want all the a Ukrainians out of my country, my government ought to be ousted for making ungrateful people a priority over the natives of my country in desperate need. What you call that in your opinion?
 
C

come to dust

Specialist
Oct 28, 2019
379
I see myself as a Nationalist. I want my country to be for my country men and women and not for foreign influence. I am anti migrant, I want to preserve my culture, encourage our language which is becoming obsolete. The globalist agenda would have my countries, among others no doubt become sludge pots with their identity stripped, wouldn’t be surprised if the agenda would assign them numbers or sectors instead. I also want all the a Ukrainians out of my country, my government ought to be ousted for making ungrateful people a priority over the natives of my country in desperate need. What you call that in your opinion?
It blows my mind that so many people care more about starting culture wars than they care about movements that advocate for policy that actually improves peoples day to day lives like wider access to healthacare, fairer wages and workers rights, tax reform, disability support, euthanasia, or sensible economic policy.
 
V

Venus1WayTicket

Experienced
May 16, 2021
273
I just gave you a walkthrough of the history of the abolition movement in my country, explaining how their operation in the public debate, educating and raising support to the cause, was crucial for the end of slavery in Brazil. But you choose to ignore it while implying I defend a completely absurd and baseless thesis. Forgive me, but I think I missed the part I agreed with you.


I believe at this point only rests for me to ask: what would I know, right? You're the wise one here, who holds all the answers, with vast knowledge about all the countries and continents of the world, so please, if you would be kind enough, enlighten me, explain to my uneducated self how the process of abolition took place? What were the necessary components to create the environment and break the naturality in which the society perceived slavery to be?

I beg for your forgiveness once more as I've here committed the grave sin of deciding to talk about my homeland, a place I possess the most knowledge. I'm sure you can understand that I meant no harm in abstaining myself in the matters of populations I don't fully understand. Unfortunately, my limited third-world country mentality could never rival your brilliance and profundity of mind. I could only dream one day be able to stick my nose in everyone's business as good as you do.

Of course, you do. You know it at all. But I must admit, even though all your mental greatness is already established at this point, It never ceases to impress me. The ability you demonstrate to extract conclusions on top of something it was never said or implied is remarkable. I believe it shows a unique vision and amazing skills in text interpretation.
I can't even.
The world is bigger than Brazil.
Just like you said the world is bigger than the US.
Ironically you Brazilian right wingers have strong similarities with the American right.
That's quite an obvious statement. I believe we all agree on it.
👆🏻👆🏼👆🏽👆🏾👆🏿👆
 
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A

AnneRee

Member
Dec 16, 2021
20
I believe that all governments are a failure and don’t have the wisdom to govern - just look at the world! I hope I don’t offend anyone by saying that -God will sort it all out for sure - I’ve personally messed up beyond hope - I know my reasons, but know there’s a happy ending for many but not taught by the major religions of this world ! I hope you all find some relief from your pain !
 
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Bread with Milk

Bread with Milk

I am a pirate
Oct 1, 2020
1,165
I'm a libertarian, I don't think state socialism works. I also don't like the idea of globalization because a country could face serious problems if any link in the chain is broken, I also support the idea of a taxpayers' union where all people can vote on what they want their taxes to be be wasted, I do not like favoritism at all in terms of political figures and I indescribably hate anything that has to do with Chavismo. I believe that Chavismo must be totally eradicated and exterminated from our society.
 
Sibyl Vane

Sibyl Vane

Experienced
May 28, 2022
236
I can't even.
The world is bigger than Brazil.
Just like you said the world is bigger than the US.
Ironically you Brazilian right wingers have strong similarities with the American right.
You're the one who mentioned Brazil. That's why I started talking about it. You got on the attack and defensive mode, attributing to me things I never said, when I asked you to point out and clarify in detail exactly what, on my recollection of the history that led to the abolition, was not entirely accurate, as you mentioned. What type of discussion is that when you say I'm wrong but refuse to explain why?

Am I a centrist or a right-winger? Why don't you pick one and stick with it? Do you want now also claim to have a deep understanding of the political scenario in Brazil?

Here the right is not a unified thing. We have those who try to imitate the American "trumpist" right. But, there is also another wing constantly fighting with that one. Since they believe there was a deliberate misinterpretation of the true beliefs of the ideology in order to defend the atrocities committed by their president. Who, may I add, is not a right-winger. He appropriated himself of an idea he did not believe in or understand to try to distinguish himself from the left and captivate the voters who wanted something different as they were tired of 16 years of a corrupted lefty government that almost destroyed the country. The truth is, we never had a prominent right here. There was hardly a dissonant voice. Recently this is starting to change, but it came with distortions created by Bolsonaro. Some are trying to fix this. Again, another very complex thing, nothing is simple in Brazil. I would have to go into details about the past and the present political scenario of the country to a better understanding.

Now commenting on your attempt to catch me in some sort of contradiction: You very conveniently choose to omit the part where I followed with: "there are subjects with a higher degree of complexity than "right" or "wrong", especially when talking about the past"

Or the one, more recently: "We need to stop with this Manichaeism when talking about history. Not everything is a matter of black and white, right or wrong, a bad guy and good guy"

Regardless, I don't see how stating a fact, being there is in some cases a clear definition of right or wrong, means that I agree with you in any way in the context of this discussion.
 
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NSA

NSA

Your friendly neighborhood agent
Feb 21, 2022
220
This quiz says left-libertarian, but none of these labels really work for me.

I want to be in the party of "try not to be an asshole and mind your own business", but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be such a thing, in America at least.

I am:
Pro gun/pro defence of self and home/property,
Pro death penalty for those who actually deserve it,
Pro voluntary euthanasia (obvs lol),
Pro legalization/decriminalization/whatever of all illegal drugs AND abolish the stupid schedule system that makes it excruciatingly difficult to get my fucking legitimate prescriptions.
Pro civil rights, including lgbt etc,
Pro healthcare for everyone,
Pro regulation to prevent scummy corporations dumping pollution everywhere and destroying the environment, because they have proven time and time again that they can't be arsed to clean up their messes without Big Brother stepping in.
Pro using tax money to help people who need it and for actually keeping the country running , ie. infrastructure, safety net programs (like disability), health care, education, a reasonable defence budget, etc. and not for padding rich asshole's wallets at the expense of everyone else.
Pro fair tax structure that takes into account cost of living in your primary residence, because like it or not, the money to run this clown farm has to come from somewhere.

So, what am I?
 
Sibyl Vane

Sibyl Vane

Experienced
May 28, 2022
236
I want to be in the party of "try not to be an asshole and mind your own business", but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be such a thing, in America at least.
I think there isn't something like that anywhere in the world. In my country, people are breaking lifelong friendships, parents kicking their kids out of the house, and families having to cancel Christmas since they can't get along anymore. All because of different political views or to be in defense of politicians that are too busy filling their own pockets with money to care about them.
 
6

6ftunder

-
May 11, 2022
53
Tbh I'm intentionally steered clear of politics.
I'm not even sure I understand precisely what is meant by "left" or "right".
 
sick.faery

sick.faery

Mar 18, 2021
77
i don't really care about politics but i guess i'd be around the center somewhere
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,262
This post has been removed for violating Reddit terms of service
More like downvoted comment until it isn't visible and the user is banned or removed the account him/herself.
 
B

Bodydysmorphia

Member
Jun 15, 2022
54
Left leaning libertarian, if that exists lol. Socially, ecologically and economically, I am definitely a leftist (however not supporting socialism) who believes in (positive) freedom and in the equality of people.

I find it hard to put labels on myself, so I'll just write down some of my political stances here:

+ Pro-choice when it comes to suicide and abortion (every person over the age of 18 should have the right to end their life by euthanasia if it is their own wish; abortions should be legal up to a certain amount of weeks, counseling should be voluntary)
+ Supporting LGBT/minority rights
+ regulate big corporations and make them pay taxes as well as force them to share their profit with their employees, make competition fairer for smaller businesses
+ Establish anti racism/anti sexism policies for civil servants and immediately discharge those who do not comply with them
+ Instead of putting a ton of people into overloaded prisons, improve and invest in education
 
GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

Autistic
Jan 26, 2021
5,501
6l924y.gif


a joke
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,262
+ Instead of putting a ton of people into overloaded prisons, improve and invest in education
I hope this includes destroying popular music or media that glorifies being an ignorant criminal.
 
Dead Ghost

Dead Ghost

Mestre del Temps
May 6, 2022
316
I have no idea... let's see...

No to abortion because only you should be able to decide when to end your life.
Yes to euthanasia because only you should be able to decide when to end your life.
No to the death penalty because only you should be able to decide when to end your life.

//

No en tinc ni idea... a veure...

No a l'abort perquè només tú hauries de poder decidir quan posar fi a la teva vida
Si a l'eutànasia perquè només tú hauries de poder decidir quan posar fi a la teva vida
No a la pena de mort perquè només tú hauries de poder decidir quan posar fi a la teva vida


🤣🤣🤣Wow, politics always brings problems.
 
Sibyl Vane

Sibyl Vane

Experienced
May 28, 2022
236
I have no idea... let's see...

No to abortion because only you should be able to decide when to end your life.
Yes to euthanasia because only you should be able to decide when to end your life.
No to the death penalty because only you should be able to decide when to end your life.

//

No en tinc ni idea... a veure...

No a l'abort perquè només tú hauries de poder decidir quan posar fi a la teva vida
Si a l'eutànasia perquè només tú hauries de poder decidir quan posar fi a la teva vida
No a la pena de mort perquè només tú hauries de poder decidir quan posar fi a la teva vida


🤣🤣🤣Wow, politics always brings problems.
The real pro-choice!
 
Dead Ghost

Dead Ghost

Mestre del Temps
May 6, 2022
316
The real pro-choice!
I've searched the net about pro-choice and pro-life but I just don't understand the definitions. When you wrote it in your comment, what did you mean? is it a phrase you use as if you were saying the opposite of what you think in humor? (I have to say these phrases are funny, like the comment you made about raisins and grapes).

I mean, I didn't understand you, I'm sorry. Can you tell me better, please?

//

He fet cerca a la xarxa sobre els pro-elecció i els pro-vida però no acabo d'entendre pas les definicions. Quan ho has escrit en el teu comentari, que has volgut dir? és una frase d'aquelles que uses com si diguessis el contrari del que penses en clau d'humor? (he de dir que aquestes frases són divertides, com el comentari que vas fer de les panses i el raïm).

És a dir, que no t'he entés, ho sento. M'ho expliques millor, si us plau?