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noname223

Visionary
Aug 18, 2020
2,330
Maybe this is a question for diabled people. Due to my conditions I am disabled. I don't have too much problems with the term disabled. (in my language behindert) In my language it is a quite common insult. But I think there are worse terms. I think one of my former therapists called people who ctb insane. ("You are not insane. You don't kill yourself". I paraphrased it)

The term people with special needs can be seen as euphemism or dysphemism. I am not completely against it though. Personally I prefer severely disabled and then I explain I am mentally ill. I personally see the term as euphemism. It glosses over the negative impact of being for example mentally ill. I don't just have special needs. It just plays down my conditions.
I think the person should have the right to determine the way how she or he wants to be called.

There is this process that many terms for disabled people become insults. The term cripple was once a neutral one in my language. But now it is a insult. Because many people associate it with something negative. I think this has to stop. And I am personally okay with disabled. The term is not perfect I admit it. But in the end it is just words. The welfare system or support in general for disabled people are way more important than these labels.
 
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FredTheCripple

Member
Mar 21, 2018
25
I'm not big on the term myself. It's too much of a sugared coat term to try not offend disabled people. I guess they feel sort-of bad for referring to the disabled as retarded for many decades.
 
TheLastFemaphrodyke

TheLastFemaphrodyke

Student
May 25, 2022
126
I'm not big on the term myself. It's too much of a sugared coat term to try not offend disabled people. I guess they feel sort-of bad for referring to the disabled as retarded for many decades.
not all disabled are retarded, retarded refers to not simply lower IQ, brain function and ability to reason, but in the delay of learning or reaching certain pre determined stages of intelligence, retarded fell out of use as it became clearer that many autistic people, those on the autism spectrum are actually rather intelligent and it is more social aspects that hinder communication rather than a lack of intellect, although the term 'retardation' does still refer to the 'delay' in reaching stages, intellectually, socially and physically there is, has never been anything wrong with the term itself or the use of the term. For an otherly abled person, to declare, 'I'm a retard' in reference to themselves, would be acceptable and should not be corrected, for it would be true and to convince them otherwise would not be possible, they are retarded in some of their developments they are not a moron. For another person to refer to another as retarded, would all depend on the situation, it could be all in fun and jest together, buddies ragging each other, it could be some asshole picking on an otherly abled, it could be simple explaining going on like right here what I am writing.

When someone tells you that using certain words is not acceptable, what they are telling you is not acceptable and they are trying to shape your thinking to match theirs, maybe because they are feeling unsure about their own feelings on the topic and could use your otherly abled spin to help shape THEIR thinking.
Yep, there will always be an asshole who will use the term disabled, or the term retarded, and other such so called 'unacceptable terms' to be a sorry ass, retarded and emotionally disabled jerk. Alas, some are just differently retarded and differently disabled. I'll keep with us otherly abled.
 
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FredTheCripple

Member
Mar 21, 2018
25
TheLastFemaphrodyke said:
not all disabled are retarded, retarded refers to not simply lower IQ, brain function and ability to reason, but in the delay of learning or reaching certain pre determined stages of intelligence, retarded fell out of use as it became clearer that many autistic people, those on the autism spectrum are actually rather intelligent and it is more social aspects that hinder communication rather than a lack of intellect, although the term 'retardation' does still refer to the 'delay' in reaching stages, intellectually, socially and physically there is, has never been anything wrong with the term itself or the use of the term. For an otherly abled person, to declare, 'I'm a retard' in reference to themselves, would be acceptable and should not be corrected, for it would be true and to convince them otherwise would not be possible, they are retarded in some of their developments they are not a moron. For another person to refer to another as retarded, would all depend on the situation, it could be all in fun and jest together, buddies ragging each other, it could be some asshole picking on an otherly abled, it could be simple explaining going on like right here what I am writing.

Obviously not all disabled people are retarded. It was a term used when the persons' disability was quite noticeable mentally. Although I don't personally have an issue with the particular word "retard", I can see why a lot of people do. It's original meaning was eventually used to insult disabled people at some point. Admittedly, some of the replacement terms also had that happen to them as well. (e.g. special needs)

TheLastFemaphrodyke said:
When someone tells you that using certain words is not acceptable, what they are telling you is not acceptable and they are trying to shape your thinking to match theirs, maybe because they are feeling unsure about their own feelings on the topic and could use your otherly abled spin to help shape THEIR thinking.

I mean, people are always trying to shape others. It's one of the reasons that euthanasia isn't legal in most countries. I think if someone tells you not to use a certain words, you basically don't use it around them or if you don't want to deal with their nonsense, you just kinda avoid speaking to them altogether.

TheLastFemaphrodyke said:
Yep, there will always be an asshole who will use the term disabled, or the term retarded, and other such so called 'unacceptable terms' to be a sorry ass, retarded and emotionally disabled jerk. Alas, some are just differently retarded and differently disabled. I'll keep with us otherly abled.

Eh, I'm not big on the term "otherly abled" either, although I wouldn't police it, since policing terms is something we're both not a fan of.
 
Dead Ghost

Dead Ghost

Mestre del Temps
May 6, 2022
252
The term "people with functional diversity" bothers me a lot, every time I have been referred to in this way I personally have felt more differentiated in the treatment with respect to others than if I were simply called handicapped or disabled.
I find it humiliating (especially when they say it to me surrounded by other people).

//

A mi em molesta molt el terme "persones amb diversitat funcional", cada cop que se m'han referit així a mi personalment m'he sentit més diferenciat en el tracte respecte als altres que si simplement em diguessin disminuït o discapacitat.
Ho trobo humillant (sobretot quan m'ho diuen envoltat d'altres persones).
 
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Someone123

Visionary
Oct 19, 2021
2,264
What is your diasability? Is it depression? Sometimes people can overxcome depression. Is it schizophrenia- I have not heard of this ebieng cured but controlled some. I worry that accepting a label of mentally ill for depression can lead to it becoming permanent for cases where it could otherwise be overcome.
 
whatevs

whatevs

There is something special about deciding when
Jan 15, 2022
2,089
So you don't acknowledge that being disabled, crippled or having special needs is negative? This will always be an insult, because it IS a patent form of inferiority and the underlying basis of biology is completely ruthless competition. Society has just built some caring layers on top of it, but they can be stripped away very quickly.

'Cripple' has always been an insult, be it in 21th century Germany or 500BC Anatolia. This isn't cultural.
 
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noname223

Visionary
Aug 18, 2020
2,330
What is your diasability? Is it depression? Sometimes people can overxcome depression. Is it schizophrenia- I have not heard of this ebieng cured but controlled some. I worry that accepting a label of mentally ill for depression can lead to it becoming permanent for cases where it could otherwise be overcome.
Bipolar with psychosis
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
2,566
I find "special needs" a bit cloying but far less offensive than the enthusiastic use of the word "retard"/"retarded" in the year of our lord two thousand and twenty two.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

a corpse is talking
Nov 23, 2020
1,118
Don't really care what they call me, matters more how they treat me, and usually there isn't much understanding there. There's a lot of infighting amongst autistic people over terminology, functioning labels, and other nonsense. Meanwhile half of the population expects you to be drooling and the other half expects rain man levels of intellectual savantism.

It isn't the labels that are the issue there, it's the caricature of autism that's been carefully curated to either downplay the struggles that many face and act like we don't need support, or to force others to mold their view of what autism is like for everyone based on how darling little timmy in the autism mumsnet group presents his specific symptoms.

Neurodiversity is a shit term though, and it has become quite prevalent in the same vein as "special needs" to soften and cushion the blow of having a disability, because to the neurodiversity advocates, autism isn't a disability. You surely must have positive traits and are denying your superpower. It is just new age bootstrap rhetoric, meant to make disabled people feel bad for being disabled and not finding some silver lining in being disadvantaged.
 
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noname223

Visionary
Aug 18, 2020
2,330
'Cripple' has always been an insult, be it in 21th century Germany or 500BC Anatolia. This isn't cultural.
Cripple or in German "Krüppel" was ineed a neutral term in my language. You will find a lot of evidence for that. The German wikipedia article elaborates on it in detail.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

There is something special about deciding when
Jan 15, 2022
2,089
Cripple or in German "Krüppel" was ineed a neutral term in my language. You will find a lot of evidence for that. The German wikipedia article elaborates on it in detail.
That is just a word, there are many synonyms. I'm talking about the idea behind the word.

Do you really think someone that walked funny or lacked an arm wasn't mocked or attacked on the basis of their condition in Medieval Germany or in the age of your grandparents?

If we are talking about ableism going back in time always makes it worse, not better.
 
Lebensunwertes

Lebensunwertes

Du bist auf dich allein gestellt
May 26, 2022
126
'Cripple' has always been an insult, be it in 21th century Germany or 500BC Anatolia. This isn't cultural.


Soft language is the bane of modern society. It's a way of removing the issue without fixing the root cause. Instead of changing the word 100 times work on removing the stigma around it. It's the same with recent efforts to replace prostitution with sex work even though they both literally mean fucking people for money.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

There is something special about deciding when
Jan 15, 2022
2,089


Soft language is the bane of modern society. It's a way of removing the issue without fixing the root cause. Instead of changing the word 100 times work on removing the stigma around it. It's the same with recent efforts to replace prostitution with sex work even though they both literally mean fucking people for money.

This is one of the issues that separate me from progressivism. I'm a cripple through and through myself but I don't see as positive that a society would want to mask inferiority or destroy the concept all together. It can't work because our whole biological reality is based on fighting for reproduction and resources. There will always be someone that's handsome and someone that's ugly, someone fit for a job and someone useless for it, someone that you find funny and someone you cringe with.

I like the idea of a compassionate and spiritual society but not a bullshitting one that's actually led by cunning psychopaths masquerading as bleeding heart humanists. So they bullshit people with leftist ideals while mysteriously they become wealthier and more powerful every year, causing that your search engine, the servers hosting websites or the food you eat are controlled by a few companies.
 
GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

Involuntary NEET
Jan 26, 2021
5,470
Don't really care what they call me, matters more how they treat me, and usually there isn't much understanding there. There's a lot of infighting amongst autistic people over terminology, functioning labels, and other nonsense. Meanwhile half of the population expects you to be drooling and the other half expects rain man levels of intellectual savantism.

It isn't the labels that are the issue there, it's the caricature of autism that's been carefully curated to either downplay the struggles that many face and act like we don't need support, or to force others to mold their view of what autism is like for everyone based on how darling little timmy in the autism mumsnet group presents his specific symptoms.

Neurodiversity is a shit term though, and it has become quite prevalent in the same vein as "special needs" to soften and cushion the blow of having a disability, because to the neurodiversity advocates, autism isn't a disability. You surely must have positive traits and are denying your superpower. It is just new age bootstrap rhetoric, meant to make disabled people feel bad for being disabled and not finding some silver lining in being disadvantaged.

Coming soon:

6l8w3k.jpg
 
paulstrong

paulstrong

Visionary
May 5, 2020
2,178
In the UK, where I live, the right winged government have made the disabled peoples lives misery. They also like to divide people up into two groups: The strivers (the ones who serve their corporate overlords) and the skivers (the ones who don't work due to illness). If your own government (The people who are supposed to represent you) treat you like shit, scapegoat and marginalise you in society then you know you are in deep trouble. This is the kind of hateful bigotry that makes it so sad to live in this wretched world.
 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
2,566
In the UK, where I live, the right winged government have made the disabled peoples lives misery. They also like to divide people up into two groups: The strivers (the ones who serve their corporate overlords) and the skivers (the ones who don't work due to illness). If your own government (The people who are supposed to represent you) treat you like shit, scapegoat and marginalise you in society then you know you are in deep trouble. This is the kind of hateful bigotry that makes it so sad to live in this wretched world.
This is absolutely correct, also worth factoring in how the quality of healthcare received is entirely proportionate to your perceived social class imo - it's clear that if there is any political assault upon the disabled it comes from the right, not those with leftist ideals.
 
KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

a corpse is talking
Nov 23, 2020
1,118
This is absolutely correct, also worth factoring in how the quality of healthcare received is entirely proportionate to your perceived social class imo - it's clear that if there is any political assault upon the disabled it comes from the right, not those with leftist ideals.
Glimpse into the mind of the average Tory and they would honestly believe that the most meager level of benefits affords someone mansions, designer clothes, and international holidays.

They are woefully out of touch with how disabled people are treated in healthcare settings, workplaces, and just day to day life, because we're meant to not moan and get over it to save them a pound or two on their taxes.

Not even hyperbole, taken straight from another forum:

 
Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
2,566
Glimpse into the mind of the average Tory and they would honestly believe that the most meager level of benefits affords someone mansions, designer clothes, and international holidays.

They are woefully out of touch with how disabled people are treated in healthcare settings, workplaces, and just day to day life, because we're meant to not moan and get over it to save them a pound or two on their taxes.

Not even hyperbole, taken straight from another forum:

I disagree with you on a minor point here, l think your average toff Tory knows the real deal but is so far away from it they dgaf, however they do need to perpetuate the myth of benefit luxury as it serves a vital purpose in dividing the working classes and maintaining the economic status quo - George Osborne did this perfectly when describing the supposedly heartbreaking plight of the hard worker getting up at 6am to see his neighbours curtains shut as they slept the day away on the taxpayers dime. It's cynical as fuck, and as much as l despise your average Tory they ultimately get away with it because we let them - when asked how long he expected the NHS to survive Nye Bevan replied "for as long as there are enough good people willing to fight for it", however it took a Labour government to implement the punitive "work capability assessments" as being seen as "tough" on welfare, in the same macho way politicians would talk about crime, became considered necessary to appease the right-wing press, itself considered the only route to electoral success. I doubt many of these cunts believe the bullshit they peddle, but routinely throwing the poorest and weakest under the bus in the knowledge that there are enough dumb fucks who will swallow it is absolutely necessary for them to maintain the status quo. I've no idea how people can witness this and still somehow come to the conclusion that those on the left who oppose all of it are somehow the enemy here.
 
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Smart No More

Enlightened
May 5, 2021
1,846
It's all about context. Honestly I think we pay so much attention to the terms used that any attempt to use the right terminology becomes self negating. It's similar to the way the terms around race are so tentative they're patronising and really just highlight and actually feed an issue when used. This isn't a new problem but it is at a particularly feverish place right now. Each new generation talk about it as though its the first time it's been addressed but its only because they weren't around before. Its often addressed. It just stsys alive because its made an issue of and the fact there's always going to be some shitty people.

People need to learn to be more objective in my opinion. Overly sweet descriptive terms are just as bad as prejudicial slurs. If there's a scientific or practical descriptive term then it should be okay. It just depends on the mouth it comes out of. More specifically the intent/view of the person saying it. Changing terms doesn't make anyone less prejudicial it just teaches them to hide it to some extent. Although I understand that some terms can trigger unease in people falling under the desceiptive term. Sometimes you just have to accept things for what they are even though it's stark reality.

Everything on individual merit I say. I'm happy to deal with it on a case by case basis. One term fits all never works. There's always someone that disagrees.

All this said, I always found special needs a very infantilising/patronising turn of phrase. Maybe something like specific needs is a more apt and practical term. Special is just too obviously a veneer.


Also fuck Tory government assholes. Total self serving, hide behind a crocodile smile and lie with a snakes tongue bastards.
 
MelancholyMagic

MelancholyMagic

For my next trick, I will disappear
Dec 12, 2021
83
"Just so, Jews want to be called Israelites, and the tailors dressmakers … But when an intrinsically innocuous name is discredited, this is not due to the name but to what is named. Hence the new name will soon share the fate of the old one." - Arthur Schopenhauer

The 'socially acceptable term' will change in a few decades, regardless of what I think.