whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
First off, I'm still mostly aimless, mostly alienated, mostly in pain. But something very peculiar, and undubitably positive has happened to me. At some point in my life I became aware of the importance of the submerged mind, the unseen iceberg of the psyche. I realized, shit, there's someone in there that fucking hates you, that's pouring poison in your ears 24/7. You need to repeat to yourself, that fucker has to change his fucking tune. Eventually, something might happen. And it did.

The first thing that has changed are my automatic shameful messages. These are utterances I use when I feel ashamed, haunted by memories of follies. When I think of a social failure or a faux pass, I feel compelled to utter something often, and it used to be 'Let's kill someone'. I´m not fucking shitting you! I used to said that, and it came from the depths of my mind, it was automatic, I didn´t need to think about it.

What do I say now? I say 'I love you very much'. LMAO I genuinely say that now! I still do this weird, autistic utterance ritual when I think of social failures and shameful events but now I use this improved message. It comes from the depths of my mind as well! I don´t know what battle ocurred in my subconscious, but I won.

Now, another thing that has changed is that now 1% of my dreams seem to be... dreamy. As in ideal, victorious, pleasant. I used to have 100% nightmares, in which people ridiculed me or I tried to run from something but had no energy. Just this night I had a fucking amazing dream. I dreamed that the CEO from the company that rejected me during my internship drove me to the new office, and holding me by the shoulder amicably, announced to everyone in the office that 'Everyone, whatevs is back!'. Everyone stood up and clapped. It made perfect sense in the dream. And why wouldn't they fucking clap? I worked some days during the damn holidays even, I'm an amazing worker!

Apparently, now my subconscious is starting to say 'alright, alright, I'm gonna let you at least CONCEIVE that you aren't a fucking loser.' What's next, I will start dreaming again that I have sex? I stopped years ago, amazingly my subconscious was so sure that I would never get laid that I would dream of masturbating. I´m not kidding! My subconscious prevented me from even dreaming that I had sex. Everything that matters happens in the subconscious, people. Everything. Including how people are herded into a technocratic dystopia.
 
1000YellowDaffodils

1000YellowDaffodils

the end is still nigh
Mar 13, 2022
13
I've never been diagnosed with autism or anything, but I know exactly what you mean about an automatic response to an embarrassing memory. I usually twitch / hit myself or say a repeated negative statement. I've always had trouble with self affirmations and "faking it 'til you make it" but I totally believe in the power of them. I hope the positive thinking keeps working for you!
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
May I ask how do you know it's your subconscious?
See, I inferred it. When I am walking down the street and feel terrified of a familiar face, is my conscious mind who's so ashamed of myself that I don't want to be recognized? No, consciously I think highly of myself often, at the very least I'm neutral normally, I think worse of many others.

So where's this intense shame and self-loathing coming from? It had to be the subconscious, which is the same place where I buried traumatic memories of child sexual abuse until I was 17. It is a powerful place where everything is decided, and our conscious mind should be able to tame It.
 
Dead Ghost

Dead Ghost

Mestre del Temps
May 6, 2022
538
May I ask how do you know it's your subconscious?
Normally, when you realize that something is not going well, you can always look inward and bring out what is underneath each thought to analyze it, what you didn't realize was greatly influencing all your decisions and reactions with others.
This thing that goes underneath, in the background, is the subconscious...and it's a real pain in the ass.

//

Normalment, quan t'adones que alguna cosa no va be, sempre pots mirar cap endins i treure cap a fora el que hi sota cada pensament per analitzar-lo, allò que no t'havies adonat que influenciava notablement totes les teves decisions i reaccions amb els altres.
Això que va per sota, en segon pla, és el subconscient...i fa molt la guitza.
 
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y'ffre

y'ffre

My English could be bad :)
Aug 15, 2022
158
Normally, when you realize that something is not going well, you can always look inward and bring out what is underneath each thought to analyze it, what you didn't realize was greatly influencing all your decisions and reactions with others.
This thing that goes underneath, in the background, is the subconscious...and it's a real pain in the ass.

//

Normalment, quan t'adones que alguna cosa no va be, sempre pots mirar cap endins i treure cap a fora el que hi sota cada pensament per analitzar-lo, allò que no t'havies adonat que influenciava notablement totes les teves decisions i reaccions amb els altres.
Això que va per sota, en segon pla, és el subconscient...i fa molt la guitza.
Interesting. I can't argue the subconscious part (I know very little about it)
But in my experience most of my thoughts are nonsense. They are just worries and negative statements about me which I took them seriously and made them stronger and stronger. My solution to this is not to argue with them or make them go away. I just let them be with me in my mind and they don't bother me anymore. Actually, they just disappeared after I started doing that.
 
Xion

Xion

Please free me from hell.
Jul 5, 2020
507
First off, I'm still mostly aimless, mostly alienated, mostly in pain. But something very peculiar, and undubitably positive has happened to me. At some point in my life I became aware of the importance of the submerged mind, the unseen iceberg of the psyche. I realized, shit, there's someone in there that fucking hates you, that's pouring poison in your ears 24/7. You need to repeat to yourself, that fucker has to change his fucking tune. Eventually, something might happen. And it did.

The first thing that has changed are my automatic shameful messages. These are utterances I use when I feel ashamed, haunted by memories of follies. When I think of a social failure or a faux pass, I feel compelled to utter something often, and it used to be 'Let's kill someone'. I´m not fucking shitting you! I used to said that, and it came from the depths of my mind, it was automatic, I didn´t need to think about it.

What do I say now? I say 'I love you very much'. LMAO I genuinely say that now! I still do this weird, autistic utterance ritual when I think of social failures and shameful events but now I use this improved message. It comes from the depths of my mind as well! I don´t know what battle ocurred in my subconscious, but I won.

Now, another thing that has changed is that now 1% of my dreams seem to be... dreamy. As in ideal, victorious, pleasant. I used to have 100% nightmares, in which people ridiculed me or I tried to run from something but had no energy. Just this night I had a fucking amazing dream. I dreamed that the CEO from the company that rejected me during my internship drove me to the new office, and holding me by the shoulder amicably, announced to everyone in the office that 'Everyone, whatevs is back!'. Everyone stood up and clapped. It made perfect sense in the dream. And why wouldn't they fucking clap? I worked some days during the damn holidays even, I'm an amazing worker!

Apparently, now my subconscious is starting to say 'alright, alright, I'm gonna let you at least CONCEIVE that you aren't a fucking loser.' What's next, I will start dreaming again that I have sex? I stopped years ago, amazingly my subconscious was so sure that I would never get laid that I would dream of masturbating. I´m not kidding! My subconscious prevented me from even dreaming that I had sex. Everything that matters happens in the subconscious, people. Everything. Including how people are herded into a technocratic dystopia.
That's very interesting. I can relate to a lot of that, especially the dream part. How did you change it though ? I've tried so many times in many ways and always failed...
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
That's very interesting. I can relate to a lot of that, especially the dream part. How did you change it though ? I've tried so many times in many ways and always failed...
It's a work in progress, I will keep the forum updated. Success or failure are not guaranteed.
 
Xion

Xion

Please free me from hell.
Jul 5, 2020
507
It's a work in progress, I will keep the forum updated. Success or failure are not guaranteed.
I get that but it would still be helpful to be able to attempt something at least, have some direction / hint...
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
I get that but it would still be helpful to be able to attempt something at least, have some direction / hint...
I tried to explain it but let's try again. Be aware every day that YOUR mind decides how YOU feel, NOT what's outside. If you're ugly, fat, a wagecuck or a 31 yo virgin is NOT what makes you suffer but how YOU feel regarding what other people think or act based on how you look or what you do. Think of this quote by Epictetus: "We are not tormented by things but by our opinion of things". Whenever you are confronted with something that seems impossible to change, you need to change yourself so that thing no longer bothers you.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to improve but it does mean that if I have to brainwash myself into feeling like I can live without sex I will do so. Nobody has to live with me but myself so I have to make sure I'm always on my side (my subconscious). The core of this treatment is to plunge into solipsism, and something related has happened organically among hardcore conspiracy realists. Thinking that most people are part of the simulation or not as real as we are. Therefore rendering their ostracism, their whole society invalid.

I had to resort to this because of my severe social anxiety and 'otherness', other people might need a different approach. My strategy is extreme but my problems are also extreme. Basically I'm trying to boost the defense-boosting aspects of Narcissism and Solipsism and wrap it all up with Stoicism and Mysticism (the belief that the material world is a inferior state and there's something better for those that overcome it).

Honestly, even if it's all delusions, which I doubt, I'm caring for myself with this plan and that's all that matters. When faced with the type of pain that leads to suicide your mind will warp and grasp for anything. I find the idea of a completely transformed individual that's unphased by society's bullshit beautiful, even if some delusions were used as useful tools in the process. Society proved with modern art, September 11 or with C19 that they are strongly delusional, so if I can craft my own delusions to make myself invulnerable it's only fair.
 
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Xion

Xion

Please free me from hell.
Jul 5, 2020
507
I tried to explain it but let's try again. Be aware every day that YOUR mind decides how YOU feel, NOT what's outside. If you're ugly, fat, a wagecuck or a 31 yo virgin is NOT what makes you suffer but how YOU feel regarding what other people think or act based on how you look or what you do. Think of this quote by Epictetus: "We are not tormented by things but by our opinion of things". Whenever you are confronted with something that seems impossible to change, you need to change yourself so that thing no longer bothers you.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to improve but it does mean that if I have to brainwash myself into feeling like I can live without sex I will do so. Nobody has to live with me but myself so I have to make sure I'm always on my side (my subconscious). The core of this treatment is to plunge into solipsism, and something related has happened organically among hardcore conspiracy realists. Thinking that most people are part of the simulation or not as real as we are. Therefore rendering their ostracism, their whole society invalid.

I had to resort to this because of my severe social anxiety and 'otherness', other people might need a different approach. My strategy is extreme but my problems are also extreme. Basically I'm trying to boost the defense-boosting aspects of Narcissism and Solipsism and wrap it all up with Stoicism and Mysticism (the belief that the material world is a inferior state and there's something better for those that overcome it).
This isn't what I thought your first post was about...

It's too bad then since I disagree with this theory. It's good if it helps you though, it just can't help me unfortunately.
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
This isn't what I thought your first post was about...

It's too bad then since I disagree with this theory. It's good if it helps you though, it just can't help me unfortunately.
My first post was about drowning unrealistic negative thoughts about yourself in your subconscious, this one is about invalidating other people or reframing what's important to you in order to survive or thrive.

I'm doing both things.
 
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Xion

Xion

Please free me from hell.
Jul 5, 2020
507
My first post was about drowning unrealistic negative thoughts about yourself in your subconscious, this one is about invalidating other people or reframing what's important to you in order to survive or thrive.

I'm doing both things.
I was especially interested in a way to reprogram ingrained negative thoughts about yourself, namely in the case of long term trauma, yes. I know I've been struggling with that in spite of many different attempts at fixing it. Also getting rid of traumatic and limiting dreams.
 
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T

Thefuture

Member
Feb 28, 2022
46
I go through periods of this. After a while of feeling on top of my subconscious though, the thoughts come back. And it's disheartening because I thought I could control them. Then it's back to the self loathing "oh this must be who I really am/ what I wanna do". But it's not, I just need to learn like you, to keep rejecting the annoying as thoughts I don't want.
 
C

Cathy Ames

Hopeless
Mar 11, 2022
1,361
Honestly, even if it's all delusions, which I doubt, I'm caring for myself with this plan and that's all that matters.
Yeah, I don't think this is "delusions." It seems like it includes some aspects of CBT and whatever kind of psychology the "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff" guy practiced. Not to mention Shakespeare. This is great, and I'm impressed. I hope you will give future updates. If you don't (and if I remember), I am going to ask.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
I had the usual dream last night where I fail at everything and become a laughing stock or a pariah, but there was something less humiliating/suicide-inducing at the beginning. This I have stumbled across is not small, I really believe that what you dream is a way to unravel our subconscious. Not the whole thing but the core underlying emotions. At least it happens with me.

The first time I started developing this theory was many years ago, when I had health, friends and a sense of future, not of death. My group of friends in higschool was comprissed of physically and socially inferior males, but our leader was good looking, had no body odor problems and had good self esteem. Javier. Although I wasn´t bad looking and was good enough to garner modest desire in a few instances, I had body odor and self esteem problems. My first group of friends very directly rejected me one day and I landed there.

Javier once told us how he frequently could take control of his dreams and do many marvelous things, like flying, making out with whoever he wanted, make a dynosaur his mount or fulfill any wish, live any adventure. I surmised that not only he wasn´t subject to many nightmares where he felt small and impotent, but that his subconscious was so convinced of Javier´s capacity and worth/entitlement that he could command his dreams. This was the first time I had proof that dreams are a window to your subconscious.

I seldom have become aware that I am dreaming, and never in my lucid dreams I could do what I wanted. In the couple of dreams I became lucid things became lifeless and soon darkness engulfed me, and I would awaken. Think about this. When you're dreaming, you are reborn in a new world. Our overall memory gets altered, as we don't remember falling asleep and we become hooked on a new beginning. Our subconscious will then create a reality that draws from our feelings, as your personality and emotional memory are intact. This new dream world is wholly yours and comes from you only, so reveals its creator without pretense. There's a crude sincerity in dreams, nothing is hidden.

Of course, Javier didn´t work for his strong sense of worth, for his self-love and self-confidence. He had been born with the attributes that make life easy, and his subconscious was trained to believe that 'he could make it'. But what if, despite of not having these atributes, we can force that motherfucker to think that we can make it? How is that some ugly or similiarly lacking people have no social anxiety and manage to get heard or admired? Somehow, they have a subconscious that works for them.

Like @Foresight said, there is no doubt an important aspect to the development of such a subconscious, adding to the advantages we might have been given by fate, and that is our upbringing, what kind of feedback our parents and to a lesser extent relatives and teachers gave us. I believe our subconscious is like the ability to learn a new language. For children it is a very quick process to learn language or have their subconscious molded, but for an adult is it way harder, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

Our dreams shall show us if we are making progress. And after all, what is life but a dream? How to hop from the nightmare, and land in greener lands? How to do it while the Agenda 2030 unfolds, and a veritable hell springs around you, harder and harder to deny? :haha:

I want to leave the Nightmare Train.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
Tonight I dreamed that I was in some sort of puddle alongside a group of Japanese and Westerners. We were in a ditch, and like 2.5 meters up a stone wall there was a natural entrance to the puddle. The people in the ditch with me were friends and I was on my own. There was this feeling that they were approachable and we could talk but we didn't. Two or three times Daniel from Hiding In My Room showed up with a friend, but they stayed in the upper level and didn´t come down. There's the theme of alienation.

I didn't have trunks for bathing and spent most of the dream rummaging for them. I found one that was old and worn out and couldn't wear it. Suddenly I was naked (perhaps having tried to put these on), covered just enough by my shirt. The theme of incapacity, the theme of shame.

The dream ended when I was writing a chat message to my brother, celebrating that I had finally found trunks and that I could now bathe normally or do whatever I was trying to do. We exchanged celebratory emojis. The theme of hope and the theme of support from family.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
I dreamed that me and a group of people were trapped in a reincarnartion cycle where we died in battle. Weirdly, out captors wanted to be killed by us and they would also respawn. I left the dream soon after delivering an speech where I dissed Microsoft to a fellow female captive.
 
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C

Cathy Ames

Hopeless
Mar 11, 2022
1,361
I dreamed that me and a group of people were trapped in a reincarnartion cycle where we died in battle. Weirdly, out captors wanted to be killed by us and they would also respawn. I left the dream soon after delivering an speech where I dissed Microsoft to a fellow female captive.
I particularly love that there was a speech dissing Microsoft.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
I dreamed with an impressively detailed and aesthetic environment of post-nuclear creatures and battles with them. It's been a long while since I had such a creative dream.
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
I dreamed of some large mutant that was chasing me and supposedly it was programable so I changed the code but it kept the same pace and was very close to apprehend me. A dream drenched in fear and indefension.
 
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L

Loosh_Earth

Member
Jul 18, 2022
34
I dreamed of some large mutant that was chasing me and supposedly it was programable so I changed the code but it kept the same pace and was very close to apprehend me. A dream drenched in fear and indefension.
which method are you using to train your subconscious?
are you writing the Affirmations down or repeat them in your head?
its said to be most effective to say them out loud in front of a mirror looking yourself in the eyes this technique is called mirror work and made public by a New Age lady called Louise Hay.
i want to start to overcome fears related to CTB but its painfull for me to look at my reflection in the mirror…
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
which method are you using to train your subconscious?
are you writing the Affirmations down or repeat them in your head?
its said to be most effective to say them out loud in front of a mirror looking yourself in the eyes this technique is called mirror work and made public by a New Age lady called Louise Hay.
i want to start to overcome fears related to CTB but its painfull for me to look at my reflection in the mirror…
I'm just at the stage where I realized I have harmful programs or loops in my subconscious, which already helped me a little bit, and I'm using dreams to try to gauge how I am doing in removing them by trying to overcome my fears in life and think constantly that I'm gonna die some day and I wasted my time being insecure and fearful.

I need to look into more concrete ways to reprogram my mind.
 
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ConstantBattle

ConstantBattle

Member
Dec 1, 2021
6
Holy shit! Im glad i stumbled onto your thread! I've been doing something similar or rather did it a couple of times but after reading this thread im gonna focus even more on it!

Here is a bit of my story regarding this.
That voice in my head just loved degrading and insulting me all the time, for any mistake i made and everything else. " you'll never get layed you disgusting piece of shit" and similar things, i don't think i need to quote more, we all know how that voice in our heads loves to torture us. Anyway at some point i started looking at that voice as another person, tried reasoning with it, you know like "were both in this body together so why dont we work together as allies, make things better for both of us! and screw the people who try to convince us otherwise!" well.... IT FUCKING WORKED! it was a gradual change from negative insults to neutral comments to now ocassionaly positive supporting messages!! But i keep making the mistake of forgetting this voice in my head and it loves to remind me by becoming bitter again. And then we start working together again and my days become brighter, i'm more confident and able to stand up for myself in social situations, before all this i was extremely antisocial.

I think we all need to figure out how to get in contact with that subconsious person inside us and work things out so we can become a team instead of adversaries.
The change wasn't instant and it keeps improving as long as i dont forget about that voice, it seems to really hate being ignored.

What i love the most from this is my dreams are much better again aswell, heck i used to dream of flying on my few good days, those dreams are coming back again!
The flying dreams went from a few feet off the ground to 100 feet off the ground to something keeping me barely floating and now slowly getting higher again.

I could go into more details about the horrible dreams i had often regarding one thing or another but i don't think that would be very helpful to anyone. Maybe one thing, i used to masturbate to porn alot and that was reflected in my dreams, treated women like shit in them but after abstaining from porn for a while, the woman in my dreams became actual people and i treat them as colegues or friends or aquaintances and this is also being reflected in real life regarding my confidence around women. (felt very ashamed before, could barely look women in the eyes, especially the really attractive ones. And now women seem to actualy like me!)

I have a feeling, after reading this thread that me and my subconscious are gonna become best buddies as i try to make sure i dont forget about it. Definitely going to put more effort into this now!
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,411
Holy shit! Im glad i stumbled onto your thread! I've been doing something similar or rather did it a couple of times but after reading this thread im gonna focus even more on it!

Here is a bit of my story regarding this.
That voice in my head just loved degrading and insulting me all the time, for any mistake i made and everything else. " you'll never get layed you disgusting piece of shit" and similar things, i don't think i need to quote more, we all know how that voice in our heads loves to torture us. Anyway at some point i started looking at that voice as another person, tried reasoning with it, you know like "were both in this body together so why dont we work together as allies, make things better for both of us! and screw the people who try to convince us otherwise!" well.... IT FUCKING WORKED! it was a gradual change from negative insults to neutral comments to now ocassionaly positive supporting messages!! But i keep making the mistake of forgetting this voice in my head and it loves to remind me by becoming bitter again. And then we start working together again and my days become brighter, i'm more confident and able to stand up for myself in social situations, before all this i was extremely antisocial.

I think we all need to figure out how to get in contact with that subconsious person inside us and work things out so we can become a team instead of adversaries.
The change wasn't instant and it keeps improving as long as i dont forget about that voice, it seems to really hate being ignored.

What i love the most from this is my dreams are much better again aswell, heck i used to dream of flying on my few good days, those dreams are coming back again!
The flying dreams went from a few feet off the ground to 100 feet off the ground to something keeping me barely floating and now slowly getting higher again.

I could go into more details about the horrible dreams i had often regarding one thing or another but i don't think that would be very helpful to anyone. Maybe one thing, i used to masturbate to porn alot and that was reflected in my dreams, treated women like shit in them but after abstaining from porn for a while, the woman in my dreams became actual people and i treat them as colegues or friends or aquaintances and this is also being reflected in real life regarding my confidence around women. (felt very ashamed before, could barely look women in the eyes, especially the really attractive ones. And now women seem to actualy like me!)

I have a feeling, after reading this thread that me and my subconscious are gonna become best buddies as i try to make sure i dont forget about it. Definitely going to put more effort into this now!
This is it!!! This is fucking it.

🚀🚀🚀
 
y'ffre

y'ffre

My English could be bad :)
Aug 15, 2022
158
Holy shit! Im glad i stumbled onto your thread! I've been doing something similar or rather did it a couple of times but after reading this thread im gonna focus even more on it!

Here is a bit of my story regarding this.
That voice in my head just loved degrading and insulting me all the time, for any mistake i made and everything else. " you'll never get layed you disgusting piece of shit" and similar things, i don't think i need to quote more, we all know how that voice in our heads loves to torture us. Anyway at some point i started looking at that voice as another person, tried reasoning with it, you know like "were both in this body together so why dont we work together as allies, make things better for both of us! and screw the people who try to convince us otherwise!" well.... IT FUCKING WORKED! it was a gradual change from negative insults to neutral comments to now ocassionaly positive supporting messages!! But i keep making the mistake of forgetting this voice in my head and it loves to remind me by becoming bitter again. And then we start working together again and my days become brighter, i'm more confident and able to stand up for myself in social situations, before all this i was extremely antisocial.

I think we all need to figure out how to get in contact with that subconsious person inside us and work things out so we can become a team instead of adversaries.
The change wasn't instant and it keeps improving as long as i dont forget about that voice, it seems to really hate being ignored.

What i love the most from this is my dreams are much better again aswell, heck i used to dream of flying on my few good days, those dreams are coming back again!
The flying dreams went from a few feet off the ground to 100 feet off the ground to something keeping me barely floating and now slowly getting higher again.

I could go into more details about the horrible dreams i had often regarding one thing or another but i don't think that would be very helpful to anyone. Maybe one thing, i used to masturbate to porn alot and that was reflected in my dreams, treated women like shit in them but after abstaining from porn for a while, the woman in my dreams became actual people and i treat them as colegues or friends or aquaintances and this is also being reflected in real life regarding my confidence around women. (felt very ashamed before, could barely look women in the eyes, especially the really attractive ones. And now women seem to actualy like me!)

I have a feeling, after reading this thread that me and my subconscious are gonna become best buddies as i try to make sure i dont forget about it. Definitely going to put more effort into this now!
I will object but don't take that as an insult, please. I will explain my perspective because I also have this voice in my head. I know "him/her" very well.
I think this voice is no one. This voice is just us. When we care about something, we want something to happen in a particular way when we don't want something to happen. We can be anxious and/or sad. When this happens, our thoughts will be activated to achieve the outcome we want or preserve what is in our hands. When this happens we usually think more. We argue in that voice in our head we try to find solutions to our problems. And that makes the first thoughts multiple, stronger, much harsher, and scarier. After all, we come to the point that the thoughts become something else they have nothing to do with the solution at that point. The thoughts become a monster that tortures us. But even when we face the monster, it just makes us remember what we wanted in the first place. For example, the voice in your head says "You will never get laid, you disgusting piece of shit.". That indicates you want to find a partner, be a better person and improve and change into someone better. So what are your thoughts doing in here? Are they helping you to achieve what you desire? No, because they changed into something scarier with your effort when they started in the first place. What will you do when you hear that scary voice again now? You will make the first mistake you made in the first place probably. You will argue with that voice, want to make the thoughts go, and maybe try to suppress them. These efforts will only make the voice worse and scarier. And then the loop will go on and on and on.

Shortly, all I wanted to say is that our efforts to make things better create this voice in the first place.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
1,393
This is a very interesting and profound topic.

Seeing 'the voice' as something separate challenges the normal habit of identifying with it. Its origin seems to be childhood maltreatment and the way that excessive competition and comparison gives rise to perpetual insecurity. It does form a phantom entity that thrives on re-telling the same stories, judging endlessly and projecting its ideas about the future. Unpleasant as it is, it gives us a sense of identity, purpose and a belief of having control of an otherwise infinitely chaotic cosmos. It's analogous to staying with an abusive partner because of the fear of being alone.

Like an inner bully, it will tend to get more aggressive if efforts are made to battle it, and yet it will also be empowered if no such efforts are made to challenge its tyranny. Some sources will say that the answer is to watch it carefully and realise that it is ultimately an entity that does not exist, hence has no substance beyond pure mental noise. Taken to the extreme, this is potentially a pathway to ego death. Other sources will say that by treating it with compassion, it can be 'loved to death', or at least befriended as others have suggested.

In any case, it is an extremely sneaky piece of mental malware, as it will tend to subtly cooperate with attempts to tame it, only to ultimately reestablish itself over time.

It's hard to discuss this without bringing great teachings of the East into it. A few classic analogies from Ramana Maharshi:

1) The mind's purported attempts to solve problems, when it is itself the root of problems, is analogous to a policeman who never manages to catch the thief, because the policeman is the thief.
2) An uninvited troublemaker can attend a wedding feast and go unnoticed because the bride's party and the groom's party will each assume that he belongs to the other. This situation can only be resolved by the entire congregation coming together and asking the troublemaker, "Who are you?" (This suggests that The Voice derives its power from never being scrutinised.)
3) The mind is analogous to a bull that keeps leaving its stable and causing trouble with neighbours. Rather than trying to beat it into submission, it can instead be seduced with fresh grass and gradually led back to the stable where it will be content to remain. (I believe this analogy is about learning to enjoy inner peace and stillness.)

And one more from Ramana's most famous disciple, Papaji:

Useless mental activity is analogous to standing on the street, then grabbing hold of the bumper of a passing car and being dragged violently along. Then jumping off and grabbing ahold of another car going the other way. The answer, of course, is to let the cars (thoughts) pass and know that they are none of your business. This links into a deeper philosophical framework of predestination and the universe being run by itself, ultimately rendering all attempts at controlling it futile. But I think I've already drifted far enough off topic as it is.
 
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Aug 23, 2022
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My subconscious is all to aware that I've put myself in this bad situation so I find it hard to redirect from it. Like; "I'm a fucking idiot who did this that and that", I can only agree and I can't replace the thought, and observing it just brings the next similar thought in infinitum. This is what makes recovery feel impossible to me, I had not learned from my mistakes until they could not be repaired..
 
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